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Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

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Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experienced dev here who took a machine learning class and found it interesting. Could I get a position in it now? Would anyone hire a grey-haired ML junior? So far my experience says no, but may be bad luck so far.

“It depends”: what’s your prior experience, what kind of roles interest you, how big is the gap between what you have + a little ML knowledge/side projects? I’d argue there’s a big need for people with solid fundamental CS, sysadmin, infra skills who can bridge the gap into ML practitioner/researcher understanding. Applications or inference generally are probably easiest to break into, especially if you already have…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45801184

Not mentioned but I've also watched almost all of the 3b1br videos. ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#22

> I see the mistakes being made and know what it will cost (because I've been there and done that many times), I do my best to explain that and recommend alternatives, but more often than not it still happens anyway. I'm mid-40s (I can't believe it) and I made a slightly different move a few years ago into more senior leadership, where I get more say in how things are done. This is precisely for this reason: I felt t…

I’m mid 40s and took the other route. I was self-taught and decide long ago that I never wanted to manage other people. So instead now I run a small solo audio company. Never have to deal with anyone but my own customers. I consider it a craft not a startup. It isn’t for everyone but whatever LLMs end up being for us all, in this position they seem more likely to be an asset than a liability. If they are good enough…

Mid 40s consultant here and just decided not to extend my contract as tech lead with current customer for another year.

Looking into meandering for a bit and regaining passion. Hopefully something small but sellable sprouts from that.

Looking forward to making my own decisions based on gut and not being stuck in the swamp of big company indecision.

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#23
I've been in the industry for over 30 years (yikes!) and I can assure you that job satisfaction is transient at best.

Start by understanding both what you want to do and what you really don't want to do and understand that over time, both of these will probably change.

In most organizations, in order to make the most impact, you have to be at Management level. I think this is causing you some conflict, because you want to be impactful, but yet don't want a CTO-type position. As an Individual Contributor, even as a tech lead, people "above" you really just want you to keep your head down and keep cranking out product. Like it or not, titles have meaning. If you want to make changes, your position in the company needs to be one where they expect change to come from, or you need to get really good at pushing your ideas to others and you have to know those people well.

It's going to be difficult to be an upper-level tech employee at a smaller company and not manage people. The separation between technology lead and manager/supervisor tends to only happen at larger companies that can afford that specialization.

It may sound trite, but the reality is that you have to understand just what kind of job you want and then devote your energy towards finding that job.

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#24
I think it is going to be difficult for you to get advice outside of the herbal "find a job you like, live a full life"

I am working for 30+ years, a combination of academia, then tech until today, where I have a very senior position in a company you know.

The world changed drasically over these 30 years and my path to an arguably successful career is absolutely not what I am suggesting to my children.

My generation built the Internet from a state of nothingness. This meant that whatever clever you were doing was new and recounting, and was bringing money. You had z limited set of technologies so you could be a master in many of them, and good in the rest.

Today this is not possible, you need to specialize, and often early.

I know that this not help, what I am probably trying to say it's that there are immutable truths (having fun, having friends and/or family, having hobbies, ...), then there is luck and maybe a statistical relevance in some jobs more than others.

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#25

I think it is going to be difficult for you to get advice outside of the herbal "find a job you like, live a full life" I am working for 30+ years, a combination of academia, then tech until today, where I have a very senior position in a company you know. The world changed drasically over these 30 years and my path to an arguably successful career is absolutely not what I am suggesting to my children. My generation…

I’m not sure if this is good advice.

The problem is that tech fashions and job market change rapidly every few years. And it takes a long time to specialize in an area. If you’re lucky and happen to be in the right place at the right time, sure, specialization works for you. Otherwise, there can be no job for you as a specialist. If you start early, who knows what the job market will look like a few years from now, let alone a couple of decades.

It’s a bad environment. It might be time for a universal income.

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#26
It seems clear to me that you need to be leading now, not being a cog with no influence.

I also resisted "being a manager, for a long time. It's like it was a dirty word and I thought it would be turning my back on what I was good at and enjoyed. But the truth is, you are no longer enjoying what you previously did and have not grown for 5 to 10 years.

Being a leader is not being a line manager. Managing some people may be part of being a leader, but it's not the main focus. I manage about 3 people and mostly I just delegate stuff to them. It's not that hard and isn't what I spend most time on.

What I really enjoy is that I get to set direction, come up with the strategy and use my years of experience to build things the right way.

So I would advise trying to get into a leadership role and give it a try. It has to be something where you can really set direction. You do not want to be a middle manager just doing people management, and there are plenty of roles like that. Worst case - you get a break from what's driving you mad right now and some fresh perspective. Best case is you actually find some new passion.

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#27
The last thing you want to do is game dev. They overwork you and underpay you. You pay the “passion tax”.

There is a huge difference between “staff augmentation” where you are just another more disposable cog in the wheel and strategic consulting where they hire you for your specialized experience and you are in the room with people who contribute budgets. Staff augmentation is a shit show.

I have most of the prerequisites at this point to do alright at independent consulting - skillset, network, credentials, customer facing experience, a little sales experience, etc and I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. I like having benefits, a steady paycheck, and the backing of an entire organization.

As a husband and a dad, do you really want the hustle, inconsistency and lack of benefits of freelancing? What special skillset do you have that would make companies want to hire you?

As far as my history - currently 51.

- 1986 - started coding as a hobby in the sixth grade in AppleSoft Basic and assembly

- 1996 - 2002 - first job out of college and changed jobs once in 1999 doing C but twiddling across multiple architectures

- 2002 - 2008 - career stagnated and became an “expert beginner” at my second job

- 2008 - 2016 - changed jobs three times and became a competent enterprise developer. Regardless of title, I was pulling well defined tickets off the board. I was a “mid level developer”. I stuck mostly in the .Net ecosystem.

- 2016 - led my first major initiative at my sixth job as the first technical hire by a then new CTO and led the integration of various acquisitions as the PE firm was trying to do the whole rollup small businesses and IPO. I belated discovered AWS. My first job with what I would consider “senior level responsibility” and dealing with strategy

- 2018 - I was the second technical hire of a then new CTO of a startup. Two non technical brothers founded the company and used an external consulting company. They found PMF and wanted to bring development in house and be “cloud native”. I became the de facto cloud architect + development and got all of my practical experience with AWS.

2020 - hired at AWS Professional Services - their consulting arm (full time) and pivoted to specializing in “cloud native development” consulting half strategy/half hands on in a mid level (L5) role.

2024 - staff consultant working at a third party cloud consulting firm (full time). Some pre-sales support, some doing everything myself from leading the project and doing the work (small projects), to leading larger projects and a little managing style consulting.

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#28
Yes I did feel the same, and it boiled down to accepting I had to try something new that I thought I didn’t want or be happy with what I already had . You have several options I guess.

- it’s very likely you haven’t mastered all layers of the stack - you maybe have mastered the parts you’ve come across though. Would you include Linux kernel development, program proofs, HPC , math-oriented software, compilers, firmwares, fpgas, database internals ( I mean, writing a full database engine ), big iron infrastructure , actual research etc in the list of things you’ve mastered? That’s what I did for many years ( not necessarily these topics ) - keep exploring , the field is massive. In my experience, the more you look around the more you realize that you haven’t seen it all, and even less mastered it.

- now, in my case, after doing just that ( trying new technical things) I realized I was getting increasingly interested in the overall technical strategy and interplay with people more so than the purely technical side of things. I had vowed I would never get into the higher spheres … but I am now essentially a principal engineer ( or whatever you call that but basically I lead some technical stuff ) for a very large org. This is not management , and I really like it. I keep learning about people and business, about how changing something big is hard and human , and balancing technical problems with human ones . It’s fascinating, and above all grounded in technical knowledge so I don’t feel like I’ve thrown away a significant chunk of my career.

In particular, if you feel that you’re not being listened to but would like to, maybe you’d be interested in that kind of job. If you’re saying you’re not always succeeding at persuading people , it probably also means there’s growth for you here, and satisfaction down the line.

- actually get into management , which like most topics is actually interesting once you get into it. It’s just different. I thought I didn’t like it - I actually do and that was a colossal surprise to me.

Whether it’s technical leadership or management, these skills can be learned, and they make the bits that you don’t like much more palatable, and the bits that are ok very enjoyable. I was lucky enough to meet very good people who taught me properly. I think this is very important. I can cook at home, but if I get proper training my food will be better and I will enjoy the process a lot more ( try chopping vegetables with no training - you’re slow as hell and it ruins everything)

- do something unrelated ( cooking etc ). To be honest, at some point I did my job but the more fulfilling exploration part of my life was at home and revolved around food. I did consider changing career completely but decided it was too risky.

To a large extent, there is limited value to your extensive knowledge if you remain at the bottom because it will always have limited impact. You seem to want the power and influence ( for good reasons !), but don’t seem to want to learn the skills that are required . ( at least management, you seem interested in technical leadership). I guess you have to choose. It’s very hard, but liberating.

You mentioned family - I also made sure I was in a good place at home when I switched. I found it hard but support from my wife helped tremendously.

Best of luck !

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#29
I started programming on Zilog z80 when I was 11 years old, at school in NZ. I'm now 55, and I've been a programmer for all that time. I've worked as contractor, consultant, tech and architecture lead, people manager, independent limited company in the UK, published author. I started a charity. There's more, but you get the idea, I've seen many sides of this programming malarkey.

Like you, at times, I reached a plateau of motivation, and more than once I questioned the meaning of the job I was doing, unsatisfied and listless.

I think if you are at all introspective, reflective, that it's inevitable you go through patches like this.

You've now got plenty of advice from many with experience, I won't add to that pile. Instead, just briefly, a word on my current situation and outlook.

Working for someone else is only rarely going to be broadly fulfilling. Working for yourself can be worse.

So I developed my hobby interests, most involving programming, because I still love it. I still get excited exploring possible solutions to hard problems. It's fulfilling in a way that working for megaCorp can never be. It's the difference between straining to meet a work deadline and straining to win a game. Similar, but different.

In other words, contentment, for me, comes from within.

Re: Ask HN: Senior people, how did your career evolve?

#30

> I'm often the most senior, more than even the managers and CTOs, but have less power or influence and am just another cog in the machine. I've been in this position for quite a while, but happily working at a company with a culture that encourages input from even the cogs in the machine, so I've been able to exert (limited) influence on things. As time went by, I started getting more and more frustrated about the l…

This is very very very good advice, the same thing happened to me. Most importantly, I wouldn’t have enjoyed the job without coaching !
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