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Ask HN: Laid-off devs who left tech?

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Re: Ask HN: Laid-off devs who left tech?

#21
post #19

The layoffs affected mostly the US market. In EU, there never has been an excess of salaries or hiring, so it's almost just bad as usual. You don't see much "funding" and "VC"s here. If you wanna stay on the market, you better have positive cash flow. In Italy, salaries are about 1/4 of what's overseas, it is very hard to job hop, those who do are seen as opportunistic people. So, you feel this slightly less. All thi…

Layoffs certainly do happen outside US and ZIRP was not uniquely American thing.

Go check what I say if you don't believe me. Ask ChatGPT for sources, check Reddit or official statistics. It's been like 10% of what is in the US. Here finding a job has ALWAYS been a problem, not just now. https://www.businessinsider.com/big-tech-layoffs-meta-snap-a...

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off devs who left tech?

#22
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Layoffs certainly do happen outside US and ZIRP was not uniquely American thing.

I haven't heard of anyone being laid off in my circle, no newspaper talking about that. Sure there must have been some Microsoft or Google employee laid off, but they do not represent big numbers here, so it's totally different. There are also almost no startups here.

Some quick examples:

Bosch: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/11/business/bosch-germany-jo...

Panasonic: https://www.manufacturingdive.com/news/panasonic-layoffs-con...

SAP: https://www.thestack.technology/sap-layoffs-cost-3-billion-l...

Cisco: https://www.brusselstimes.com/1328320/us-company-cisco-to-sh...

Telia: https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/swedens-telia...

Sure, numbers are lower, but tech downturn is a global thing.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off devs who left tech?

#23
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people are really going hard nationalist. But it does seem like the offshoring has increased over the past 5 years. Im probably going to lose my job in part because offshore has essentially eliminated the internal job moves available to me so I can't get off a shitty team. Everything keeps getting automated or shipped overseas. It's hard to be optimistic for my kids to have good job opportunities when t…

Genuinely curious – what do you think the solution is? Personally I think labels like "nationalist" are unhelpful, but regardless what you label it what I do believe is that there needs to be a genuine conversation about whether it's better to have more expensive goods and services if it means people have jobs and opportunities. I'd be fine with iPhones costing 2-3x more if I knew they were built domestically. Those…

I think we can still have some eprotecrionist policies while partipating trade. We can even have some tariffs if they're well thought out, such as anti-dumping or on certain sectors (Trump 1 and Biden). Protectionism might not be the biggest factor in economic growth. It feels like the tariffs haven't changed much from a personal perspective. Im more concerned about unemployment due to rates and the section 174(?) changes. The tariffs have nothing to do with all the layoffs. It also feels like AI and automation have a lot of companies just waiting to see if they're really need to hire more people if if they can just use AI. Seems like lots of people are filling multiple roles right now.

I get that the economy is measured by GDP and we did see it shrink in Q1. However, it doesn't feel like a good measure due to all the inequality. It feels like stuff like credit card balances, mortgage defaults, and unemployment are better numbers. Those don't look good but haven't skyrocketed either... yet.

Yeah, the middle class has been shrinking for years. I do think some of the absolutist free trade stances we had played a role. I'm probably going to lose my job soon and if feel like I'll just end up working at Walmart. I've never understood how the candidates that say they're pro labor are also the ones pushing for absolutist free trade and environmental restrictions. Some of these are at odds. If you're free trade, you're just shifting those jobs to the cheaper markets. That's also where the environmental and worker protection seem to be weakest.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off devs who left tech?

#24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious – what do you think the solution is? Personally I think labels like "nationalist" are unhelpful, but regardless what you label it what I do believe is that there needs to be a genuine conversation about whether it's better to have more expensive goods and services if it means people have jobs and opportunities. I'd be fine with iPhones costing 2-3x more if I knew they were built domestically. Those…

> I'd be fine with iPhones costing 2-3x more if I knew they were built domestically This is easy to check! Pretend they are built domestically and give 2x the cost of it to a charity you love the next time you buy an iPhone.

Charity isn't the same as a functioning domestic economy which is what he and everyone else saying this want.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off devs who left tech?

#25
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be fine with iPhones costing 2-3x more if I knew they were built domestically This is easy to check! Pretend they are built domestically and give 2x the cost of it to a charity you love the next time you buy an iPhone.

Charity isn't the same as a functioning domestic economy which is what he and everyone else saying this want.

The key word in my comment is “pretend.”

There is some situation in which he is claiming to be happily spending 3x on an iPhone.

He should pretend that situation exists to see if he will actually spend 3x on an iPhone before being so confident that he actually will happily spend 3x on an iPhone in some uncertain future.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off devs who left tech?

#26
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't heard of anyone being laid off in my circle, no newspaper talking about that. Sure there must have been some Microsoft or Google employee laid off, but they do not represent big numbers here, so it's totally different. There are also almost no startups here.

Some quick examples: Bosch: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/11/business/bosch-germany-jo... Panasonic: https://www.manufacturingdive.com/news/panasonic-layoffs-con... SAP: https://www.thestack.technology/sap-layoffs-cost-3-billion-l... Cisco: https://www.brusselstimes.com/1328320/us-company-cisco-to-sh... Telia: https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/swedens-telia... Sure, numbers are lower, but tech downturn…

Thats what I said. It's been 10% of what it's been in the US. I'm not saying the economy goes well. The difference between what the US had before (the hiring spree) and now, we never actually felt in EU. If you look up Italy, it's been laying people off (not only tech) for 50 years.
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