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Ask HN: Proofpoint is blocking our emails. Any recourse?

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Re: Ask HN: Proofpoint is blocking our emails. Any recourse?

#21
> It seems that these companies - Proofpoint, Microsoft, Google - make arbitrary and undisclosed rules for email delivery

I don't think that secret rules are the main problem. Two group of rules are public: don't send spam/phishing/malware and follow all relevant RFC (SMTP/MIME/SPF/DKIM/DMARC). The list of small things which affect mail delivery is long so I recommend to use tools like https://www.mail-tester.com/ which can highlight problems in your mail setup (a couple of checks are unnecessary strict though and some are relevant only to newsletters/maillists and not relevant for individual messages sent by humans but most items in their list you need to follow).

Everything else usually secret on purpose - so it would be harder for spammers to evade spam filters.

A much bigger problem is that any spam filter can mark a non-spam message as spam (False Positive) or spam message as ham (False Negative) and there is an inherent trade-off between FP and FN rates. It's easy to reduce one of them while letting another to increase. If I would build an anti-spam system I would target near zero FP and then will try to reduce FN to the extent it is possible not increasing FP. But looks like leadership of mail companies (like PP, O365 e.t.c.) targets low FN and cares much less about FP. Don't know why - may be their customers demand low FN and don't understand that asking for low FN they are getting high FP.

Having said that it is likely that your problem can be solved in 15 minutes (e. g. by removing you domain from a blocklist in which it can end up because of a system error - see above about FPs) if you can get a PP employee to check their logs. But that's the main problem - these companies don't invest nearly enough in processing feedback from non-customers, we are lucky if they hire a couple of (underpaid) contractors to process all non-customer feedback they are getting. So looks like the only way to solve the problem is to find some PP employee via friends of friends or find a PP customer who can file a support ticket.

Re: Ask HN: Proofpoint is blocking our emails. Any recourse?

#22

We have a valid email domain that is battletested If it is blocked by your clients’ infrastructure, it is not passing the test. Unless this is a hill you want your business to die upon, finding another email service might be a better option. Changing your business practices is probably within your control. Changing another business’s business practices probably is not. Good luck.

Thanks for the comment. I totally understand email is not something one should build themselves. But, the greater question is why do "selected" players get to define rules instead of keeping internet free? Our emails go through all providers and land in inbox except when they are fronted by proofpoint.

> But, the greater question is why do "selected" players get to define rules instead of keeping internet free?

Yeah it’s crazy. Large established entities rarely if ever get preferential treatment or make the rules outside of the internet.

If I were you, I’d expend a ton of time and energy trying to win this battle.

Re: Ask HN: Proofpoint is blocking our emails. Any recourse?

#23
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proofpoint delivers more value to some of your customers’ inboxes than you do. There is no larger question.

That’s your opinion. I am with OP on this one. Why proofpoint gets to silently drop the email instead of letting it go to spam folder. If you have vested interest in proofpoint you should disclose it or keep sucking for big guys.

I have no vested interest in a nything related to this thread. Just a vested interest in horse sense.

I read the OP’s description of what they send to customers inboxes and it is exactly the sort of email I mark as spam. In a corporate environment, it is exactly what I would expect a paid spam filter to filter.

Re: Ask HN: Proofpoint is blocking our emails. Any recourse?

#25

We have a valid email domain that is battletested If it is blocked by your clients’ infrastructure, it is not passing the test. Unless this is a hill you want your business to die upon, finding another email service might be a better option. Changing your business practices is probably within your control. Changing another business’s business practices probably is not. Good luck.

Thanks for the comment. I totally understand email is not something one should build themselves. But, the greater question is why do "selected" players get to define rules instead of keeping internet free? Our emails go through all providers and land in inbox except when they are fronted by proofpoint.

Because there is an army of people abusing the commons, users are forced to adopt increasingly aggressive techniques to protect themselves.
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