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Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

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21–30 of 195 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#21

Not sure but if Trump wins and turns H1B visas on its head again, we might see a reversal.

Enough. The number of available H1-B visas available each year has not changed since 2005.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/h1b-visa...

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#22
> In this market where every company out there tries to minimise costs

That was always true. Guide reminds you that significant amount of money for you is a rounding error for most of companies, so negotiating is always a good idea.

Observations:

- posted salary ranges are BS. Companies are as likely to go significantly over the upper limit as to refuse to entertain anything remotely close to upper bound even with the most amazing of candidates. You won't know until you negotiate.

- vc backed companies are supposed to grow fast, not balance budget. if you can convince them you will help with that growth more than the next guy many limits become very negotiable

- some companies have fixed / very narrow ranges for roles except the most senior ones. usually they are significantly below market rates. if they straight up refuse to budge don't waste your time - same mechanism is going to manage your future salary increases

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#23
The most important part of negotiation: Having an offer in the first place.

Unfortunately, I and a dozen other software devs (all of whom I know personally, and all of whom are amazing) are not getting any interviews, much less offers.

None of us have ever experienced a drought like this before, either. So... ???

Thankfully, we're all still currently employed.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#24

Your most powerful tool in negotiation is the ability to say no. That comes when you have competing offers.

The "when it rains, it pours" phenomena I think most of us (anectodtally obviously) think we've seen is especially amusing in this context.

They're really shooting themselves in the foot by only hiring people everyone wants already instead of finding people who they can train for two weeks and bring up to speed.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#25
post #15

Ok yes this guide is fine, a lot of things are up for negotiation, and I think it’s a lot more widely known these days to negotiate for stuff. But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. They know it’s something you’re supposed to do, but they will try and negotiate things that are not negotiable (like making it a hard ask for extra contributions per paycheck for healthcare to mat…

I think the modern advice that you should always negotiate and ask for more is deeply distressing for many people. They do not want to feel like they are being taken advantage of but they also don’t really want to engage in a negotiation.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#27
post #6

Whenever you have more than one offer, there is room for negotiation.

Even if you have one offer there is room for negotiation if you’re willing to accept that you might end up with 0 offers.

Not even. You have to handle the negotiation like a complete asshole before your counterparty will withdraw their offer entirely. For the most part, asking (respectfully and politely) for the moon will just result in a "no, we can't accommodate that". Then you decide if you're ok with that, and accept or decline.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for senior roles it isn't.

Sure it is.

I've noticed only slightly larger pool of decent candidates when recruiting, but nothing crazy.

The number of unsolicited messages from recruiters with serious offers I receive haven't changed much either.

The only serious change I see is in the number of borderline spam recruiter messages coming to the linkedin profile I haven't updated in almost a decade.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#29
post #20
post #15

Ok yes this guide is fine, a lot of things are up for negotiation, and I think it’s a lot more widely known these days to negotiate for stuff. But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. They know it’s something you’re supposed to do, but they will try and negotiate things that are not negotiable (like making it a hard ask for extra contributions per paycheck for healthcare to mat…

> People need more than knowing to negotiate, they need to know how to negotiate, and that means partially knowing what is negotiable. Everything is negotiable. Some things are just easier than others. Besides, did you tell them up front what was negotiable, or did you just kinda expect them to figure it out?

I suppose this is true in some abstract sense, but not in companies of any reasonable size when it comes to hiring. There are lots of things that are firmly set company-wide, like the type of health plans offered and the company contribution, that are pretty much non-negotiable. Not knowing this makes you look naive or runs the risk of just confusing the hiring manager/HR.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#30

The most important part of negotiation: Having an offer in the first place. Unfortunately, I and a dozen other software devs (all of whom I know personally, and all of whom are amazing) are not getting any interviews, much less offers. None of us have ever experienced a drought like this before, either. So... ??? Thankfully, we're all still currently employed.

From what I'm hearing/see, it's worse than 2002 by a long shot. :\ 2001-2004 was pretty bad (from what I recall Cisco laid off about 20% of it's engineering team), but it was clear by 2003/4 that the growth of dial up subscribers was going to continue, so people were able to find jobs again although senior devs moved to much lower paid jobs.
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