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Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

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21–30 of 69 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#21
Old school dinosaur that still advocates for private cloud solutions, here.

Swallow your pride or curiosity on rolling your own kit and accept the reality that OneDrive/Google Drive/Dropbox/Box.com/et al are going to be better for your needs. The single biggest benefit of SaaS products are their flexibility to provide service when you can't or don't want to support the deployments yourselves, which is basically startup mode.

Once you're off your feet and have an honest-to-god Enterprise IT team with a budget, let us deal with it. They'll likely keep end-user storage in a Collab Suite (M365, GWorkspace) unless there's a specific advantage or requirement for your business needs in running it on-prem.

Everything is a tool, and the use-case of these tools is in freeing you to solve the really hard problems of startups, i.e. survival, success, and sale/solvency.

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#22

I think so but there are generally two competing philosophies. One is that startups should leverage cloud services as much as possible because of their relatively low resources required to get off the ground. I think selfhosting open-source services is more useful for niche SMB's that specifically require on-prem data.

What's the other philosophy I wonder?

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#23
Driven by my ideals and my previous horrendous experience dealing with Microsoft and Google support, I've been a strong advocate for self-hosting in my organization. I do not think companies should put something as valuable as their collaboration and communication in the hands of a company as inconsistent as Google or Microsoft.

However, ideals aside. In many large companies, using Microsoft or Google products can also be a compliance headache (that is, if you're outside the US). A larger corp is more likely to be hit with such issues than a small startup.

Also, self hosting of course requires resources. I'm not talking about compute, in my experience that is very negligible. It of course requires people to keep stuff up to date and learn how to use it to its fullest extent. A larger enterprise can more easily afford this effort than a small startup. Even considering my idealistic stance, it is hard to ignore the low cost of entry as well as the ease of getting started with the big cloud offers.

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#24
Running a service is one thing. Keeping it reliable and secure is another. Especially if you are a start-up. You have limited capital and even more limited developer time. Don't waste either on building your own infrastructure.

If you are worried about someone stealing your ideas, don't be. First, nobody cares about what you have until you make it big, which is going to happen a long time from now if ever. Second, the major services all provide enterprise deals that ensure privacy, enough that the largest companies in the world and many governments rely on them. You are far more likely to be hacked if you try to roll your own than if you use a popular service - especially if you aren't an experienced IT admin.

If you are in a start-up you want to put your full focus on your product - don't waste time on infrastructure. Use popular online services, use popular brands for hardware, use popular languages and popular libraries. Use anything you can to get you going as quickly and as painlessly as possible so you can focus on building your product and your business. That's going to be hard enough.

I say this as someone who worked with a start-up from inception to being acquired 10 years later. I was the guy building the networks and the servers and the desktops. We cobbled together our own systems from white box parts and using free software that required lots of setup and maintenance. I spent a lot of my time maintaining that stuff instead of working on our products. When we got acquired, the first thing they did was throw all that stuff out and switch to their existing systems that were all the well regarded name brands that you know. Since then, everything just works.

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#25

All you have to do is read the commentary here to know this probably isn’t a good idea in a large work setting unless you have dedicated IT staff to support it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41615102

Yes but, in a business environment, you need to have dedicated IT support for anything you're self-hosting. Things can go wrong even with the most stable piece of software, and you need to be ready for that. SAAS' main selling point is that they take away the maintenance burden from you, while the advantage of self-hosting is that you're the one in control, at the expense of having to maintain the thing yourself. Then some softwares can require more maintenance than others, but needing IT staff if you're self-hosting isn't specific to Nextcloud.

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#27

When I worked at a smallish company, we were upgrading our email calendaring system from a homegrown thing to some better. In my young year I was pushing for something like this, an off the shelf self hosted system. I was worried that slinging it out to a thirdparty would be both expensive and bad for my career. However I was wrong. Much as it was a dick to set up, migrating to Google (workspace? fuck knows what it w…

I love many things about the hacker ethos, but after being in tech for several years, I’ve learned the following painful lesson: Do not self host. The only thing you should ever self host is software your company wrote; unless you have a dedicated team for that specific piece of software alone. You will never meet the uptime of Google Workspace. Your tools will never have less bugs. You will never meet the security c…

> Additionally, every time something doesn’t work (or, heaven forbid, you’ve been hacked), your company’s employees and lawyers can and will blame you instead of an unmovable entity.

That's what it's really about. Modern day "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM". It's not about the better solution, it's about blaming someone else if things go wrong.

Azure has been completely hacked twice now, yet people still move their shit over to Microsoft's cloud offerings. I don't understand how fucked in the brain you have to be to consider this a good idea, except for being able to shift blame.

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#28
post #3

Do you want to spend your time building your product, or spend your time managing something you get for $10/mo from Google?

I can understand the attitude, but personally I don't second it. I think the better question is: Do you care enough to divert some time away from building your product? Some folks might be really motivated by not going with Google Workspace. Others don't care at all. There can be great motivational effects in doing what you think is right, I wouldn't discount it as a purely economical decision. Sure, tools need to be…

If you care less about spending any amount of time on your product than whatever it is you emotionally get out of hosting Nextcloud instead of using Google Workspace, beware.

This is not about Nextcloud vs GW. The spooky bit is that you consider taking on additional burden with something that will not improve your product in any way, when your product is the only reason why your startup maybe exists in the future.

That's a particularly dangerous habit to pick up, because you will have 1000 chances to make meaningless decisions and distract yourself every day.

Unless you have an extremely convincing reason to do something — and if you are wondering, you don't — don't.

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#29
> Does it put too much maintenance work on DevOps

... DevOps shouldn't be deploying, administering and maintaining something like NextCloud.

And honestly without any additional input this question sounds like "I worry what I would be in a position when NextCloud wouldn't be able to support the needs of 10000s users. BTW currently it's me myself and my dog in this startup".

Re: Ask HN: Is Nextcloud a Great Alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive for Startups?

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love many things about the hacker ethos, but after being in tech for several years, I’ve learned the following painful lesson: Do not self host. The only thing you should ever self host is software your company wrote; unless you have a dedicated team for that specific piece of software alone. You will never meet the uptime of Google Workspace. Your tools will never have less bugs. You will never meet the security c…

> Additionally, every time something doesn’t work (or, heaven forbid, you’ve been hacked), your company’s employees and lawyers can and will blame you instead of an unmovable entity. That's what it's really about. Modern day "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM". It's not about the better solution, it's about blaming someone else if things go wrong. Azure has been completely hacked twice now, yet people still move t…

It doesn’t matter if it’s fair, it’s just reality.

If you self-host for a business, and your self-hosted instance is hacked when other self-hosted instances of the same software weren’t, you are at risk for legal action and a possible criminal investigation. Was it really the software that was hacked, or were you negligent? Was it truly an accident, or did you have malicious intent? Plus, define negligent - does not having a service like CrowdStrike installed count? (You might say, “obviously not,” but if it takes $50K to convince the court on that point, shallow victory there.)

If you have a family, even if this is only a 10% chance of happening, you would have to be, in your own words, “fucked in the brain” to put your livelihood and career on the line to save a few bucks.

In my ideal world, beer would rain from sky and nobody would ever get drunk. We’re not in an ideal world, and “CYA” is a valid reason until you have a proper, large, dedicated IT team.

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