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Careful about aging out. At your age you have about 10 years before age discrimination will hit you hard at the individual contributor level if you haven’t moved into management. Maybe a dual master program to obtain the MS in computer science and an MBA simultaneously? That way you show deep knowledge of business and the technology.
There are plenty of us in our late 40’s and above who work as IC engineers.
What I would honestly recommend doing is a bootcamp for full stack, or even just backend or frontend, or native, React Native, etc. Start there. You must learn the basics of code first. Not only that, but you will need to know how a non-academic team works. Github for starters. Also if anyone ever tells you that "elegant" code in one line is better than "readable" code in 10 lines, punch them for me. That is not how reality works in the workplace. Clear variable names. Clear function names. An understandable architecture for what is trying to be accomplished. These are the most important things, not reducing a perfectly understandable algorithm to something akin to calculus.
I actually made some of the first BCIs for the PC a long time ago, but already was a certified architect in C#, Microsoft, etc. These days you want to go for Node/JS or Go or Java, etc. Once you learn one language it is simple to learn another, particularly C-based languages (JS/TypeScript/C#/Java/ObjC/Swift and so on - notably they use brackets instead of indents or words to denote functions and objects.
I used to do AI work, but mainly medtech these days like digital therapeutics, and paradoxically I also do bank security (startup I was working with got bought by a bank, thus the disparity between the two. hey, you make friends along the way, help them out, and occasionally a hustle becomes your job)
I highly recommended becoming intimately aquatinted with databases, both relational and otherwise. And learn how to optimize them. You WILL have to work with a relational database at some point and thus you will need to learn SQL, indexing, etc.
Along the journey of my life, I've become quite the physicist and like to think I have a deeper understanding of math than most people. The only benefit I see to a degree is you might learn some of that. Physics, signal processing (from an EEG for example), and so on, are unavoidable. HOWEVER, there are a TON of libraries that will do all of that for you, and along the way you will learn it. I highly doubt anyone writes their own Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) these days, but to use it you have to understand how it works, what it's giving you, and what it's not, in order to avoid egregious mistakes. I've had to correct many people on what a Fourier transform actually does, many of them who have related doctorates. There are some truly stupid highly credentialed people in the world. IMO even the wikipedia article on it has some serious mistakes.
Honestly? Everything you need to know you can learn yourself online very cheaply through online courses. Get yourself a mentor or two. People LOVE teaching others. A bootcamp, however, will land you your first job.
As far as getting a job, when it comes to programming or engineering, "the proof is in the pudding". I've interviewed hundreds of programmers. At first I read all about their achievements at MIT and all of what they are experts in. But, in the end, EVERY INTERVIEW will consist of a live coding session. 90% of the people I interviewed could not write a solution to total softball questions like, "Alphabetize this text" or "Parse this JSON". I would even let them google and they still couldn't do it. I've had people right out of bootcamp that were better coders than the most highly credentialed CS graduates.
Which brings me to my final notes: 1) Live code as much as possible. Learn to love it. I failed the crap out of my first live coding interview, but faced my fear and now I'm the only one in the bank department I'm in that live codes. As I'm sure you can imagine, product and design LOVE IT. 2) FORGET ABOUT LEETCODE or any other such crap. If I was ever given a leetcode question in an interview I would tell them point blank that people just memorize the answers to these, they are not applicable to real-life application, and then I would walk out because that company is clearly not serious. 3) Whiteboard interviews are also going to happen. Super easy. Flow chart with how the frontend connects to the backend, branching enough into each until they know you know what you're talking about. 4) Don't forget the old school! If someone asks you what "PUT" means in a request and you don't know the answer, that's pretty embarrassing. Learn about basic networking, from old to new. 5) LEARN DEFENSIVE CODING: This will give you a leg up because I've never met a programmer who knew it who hadn't also been a hacker at some point in their life. Basically what this means is how to reduce vulnerabilities, but also how to straight up trick would-be hackers. For example, error messages. If you have an error message that says "License invalid", it will be ludicrously easy to find that string and thus where the license code is likely to be. Instead, screw with them. Say your program detects that a user has hacked into your app, if you simply cause a crash or exit that just gives them an easy way to find and remove the problem. Instead, perhaps there is a commonly used number in your app. Change it so they get weird data. Or maybe division of numbers is needed at some point. Change the divisor to 0 to cause a random crash. Some defensive coders will simply use a timer, set it to a random value, and then cause a crash in some way. Whatever you decide to do, use multiple defensive techniques, and always always screw with the hacker so they have no easy way to determine where to look to bypass your protections.
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Ok so I've overwhelmed you and you may be rethinking your decision. Don't. Jump right in! Learn as you go, keeping the above advice in mind, and you will succeed. Take a few courses on the basics of the actual reality of working in the private sector, so you know the basics of github, but make no mistake: show me a coder that says he doesn't google at least once a week, I'll show you a damn liar.
As far as aerospace, I've no clue. I have friends at NASA who are bored out of their minds, but the are all credentialed. Even so, the exactly University you go to barely matters, as far as I can see. Again, coding and the understanding of fundamental concepts is something that can and will be tested during an interview, and maybe even before the interview with a take-home project or a general phone call.
Above all, have confidence in yourself, and walk out of an interview that is stupid or has a bad culture. EVERYONE has imposter syndrome. Make THEM court you. I've straight up never gotten a job I wrote a cover letter for. Usually out of some company that is truly interested calls YOU. They can see your resume on LinkedIn like everyone else. Which reminds me, up your LinkedIn game big time. Yeah yeah everyone hates it but you start writing things, people invite you on podcasts, the snowball starts rolling.
Well that's all I've got. I hope it helps!
Good luck!
Consider that taking 5-10 graduate courses and writing a master's level thesis or project will generally take all of your free time and a bunch of your savings over the course of two or more years. (I sure hope you're not thinking to take on debt for this!) And while you'll absolutely learn some things and find yourself excited about some ideas in those couple years, you will forget almost all of the stuff your learn…
Yes, I want to be a PM with deep technical understanding. What are the other more efficient paths?
* Depending on your industry and its maturity, there may be courework or certification tracks designed for managers, etc (still expensive, but better focused)
* Regularly attend technical conferences in your industry. Sit for sessions and presentations on those deeper topics, work hard to understand them, make a point to follow up on what you're exposed to, make connections with people who can amplify your knowledge and keep you inspired, etc (broadly cheaper, and ongoing)
* Audit classes and seminars. Generally, you do not need to be enrolled in a degree program to attend classes and learn things. But you do often need to make a personal connection with whoever is leading it and get their permission. You may sometimes need to lay fees. (cheap, ongoing, deep; maybe not convenient if you're not near a suitable university)
* saturate yourself in the technical meetup circles in your area and do your best to catch up and keep up. As with conference, find friendly people who can help you learn and keep you inspired (cheap, ongoing, maybe not convenient)
* take ad hoc online classes. (cheaper, ongoing, available anywhere)
* do what other auto-didacts do: just immerse yourself. Buy books that look like they'd be fascinating, and if they end up over your head, figure out what other book or video or class might help remedy that, recusring until you find the starting point you need. (cheap, ongoing, limitless)
* etc
Technical degree programs are generally structured and priced for people who are pursuing the field professionally, but they are only a tiny fraction of the learning opportunities that are out there.
Careful about aging out. At your age you have about 10 years before age discrimination will hit you hard at the individual contributor level if you haven’t moved into management. Maybe a dual master program to obtain the MS in computer science and an MBA simultaneously? That way you show deep knowledge of business and the technology.
There are plenty of us in our late 40’s and above who work as IC engineers.
For context, I failed most of my Computer Science papers first go (undiagnosed ADHD) and I absolutely Hated (with a capital H), Software at uni.
Once I graduated though I picked up Python and discovered I actually LOVE programming and computers - the way uni was taught and my immaturity really put me off initially.
I’m successful as a Software Engineer, have sold my own Software, have built an AI app recently, but I have had some knowledge gaps.
I entered Harvards CS50 courses and loved them! You could try that instead of a masters? One can basically finish a full course in 2 weeks (on top of work and life)
I’d highly recommend starting there, rather than the mountain that is a Masters.
But if you are blasting through the courses, then consider a Masters at that point?
I have also been considering a Masters, but you have to ask yourself why?
- For the knowledge gained?
- For the cred?
- For employment opportunities?
I’d say you can get all of that with a typical software career if you also study on your own time outside of work.
But if you absolutely can’t shake the thought of doing a Masters, how about doing it part time so you can still have healthy finances?
Best of luck!
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are plenty of us in our late 40’s and above who work as IC engineers.
I worry about this a fair amount and I appreciate hearing the success stories
Consider that taking 5-10 graduate courses and writing a master's level thesis or project will generally take all of your free time and a bunch of your savings over the course of two or more years. (I sure hope you're not thinking to take on debt for this!) And while you'll absolutely learn some things and find yourself excited about some ideas in those couple years, you will forget almost all of the stuff your learn…
Yes, I want to be a PM with deep technical understanding. What are the other more efficient paths?
If you don't actively stay up with the tech, your understanding will atrophy. Consequently, because you intend to remain a PM, your tech will never be as strong as someone who is dedicated to it and you need to be okay with that.
Another classic example for this are engineering managers: people management (like project/product management) is its own discipline with a deep set of skills, research, training, etc. To become a good EM means you _will_ sacrifice some of your technical edge. That "deep technical understanding" that good EM's maintain is built on a foundation of years as a practitioner and, even then, requires continual investment.
I don't mean to discourage you, I just want to ensure you have realistic expectations.
Given all that and given your goals, I think you should just ask yourself a question only you can answer: how do you best learn?
If that's in the classroom, then go get that masters (online or in person). If that's with hands on projects, then set aside time for tinkering and get going. Likewise with books, videos, meet-ups, etc. You know what motivates you and what techniques keep you focused (because you'll need that discipline).
Regardless, I wish you luck and enjoy the journey!
Most people always think you can take classes online, work in side projects and get the same benefits. They are all right, except enrolling in a program will help you stick to it, and that is the whole point.
Consider that taking 5-10 graduate courses and writing a master's level thesis or project will generally take all of your free time and a bunch of your savings over the course of two or more years. (I sure hope you're not thinking to take on debt for this!) And while you'll absolutely learn some things and find yourself excited about some ideas in those couple years, you will forget almost all of the stuff your learn…
> Consider that taking 5-10 graduate courses and writing a master's level thesis or project will generally take all of your free time and a bunch of your savings over the course of two or more years. (I sure hope you're not thinking to take on debt for this!) OMSCS graduate. The program certainly ate up most of my free time for 2.5 years, but on the other hand, the whole degree was about $8k for me and required no th…