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Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

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Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#22
post #18
post #15

I'm currently using some of the latest popular stack, for a simple Web site that could've appeared almost the same 25 years ago[*], with static HTML and a little client-side JS. (And could've been implemented faster then, and would've operated much more efficiently.) 158 NPM packages already, and the page load requests are insane. Two reasons I'm doing this monstrosity of an implementation anyway: 1. Resume-driven-de…

This is absolutely insane to me. Native HTML5 gives so much power and it seems like front end devs love to jargon and buzzword the next big thing to death every other year. I primarily work in networking and if we added the layers of complexity like I see front end work does we would have SDN configuring an internal PtP VPN for every device on a LAN just because it's the hot new tech.

I made a powerful HTML5 Offline app a long time ago, for some technical requirements (and cool-sounding user) that would be challenging, no matter what stack was used.

Then I was in an interview, where some junior openly sneered at me, for not using a recent popular RDD framework for it.

Part of the problem, even for highly experienced people, is that even the good jobs usually have "technical interview" gatekeeping that's not very enlightened.

(Yes, no matter what framework or stack you're using, I've probably done related things before, and I can pick it up quickly. No, a Leetcode hazing won't tell you how I think, nor what I can do, and it just seems like you're jerking off.)

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#23
I can't draw a graph here, but imagine complexity as a line going much higher much faster relative to meager improvements as a whole with a barely-raising line (and on average weighted down by many individual cases where websites have gotten demonstrably worse).

It's a shame, because the actual web platform as defined by browser APIs has gotten hugely better just in the last few years. We rarely see any of those improvements taken advantage of in the wild though. It's a huge, huge bummer.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#28
I don't think it's real complexity.

I mostly do backend and ops. Usually, I never generate backend code with llms, I mostly use them to generate test cases and small helper functions, but each time I try to do complex stuff, even with low domain specific knowledge, llms do not help. Rubber ducking is my most recent use (thanks to a comment here) and is fine, making them still useful _enough_.

However, this week I had to do some front-end. I tried llms, once again thinking it would hurt me more than help me, but I was wrong. It can generate 100 good lines of good front-end (granted, mostly htmx) in 3 or 4 iterations. Useful, working stuff, not shit I have to spend hours debugging. I was helped by the fact that I already had an architecture and data models (worked on that yesterday), and it just had to generate forms and containers without real algorithm inside (well, and a FSM but I wrote it by myself, it was easier than try to explain it to a LLM. And it's fun to write).

[edit] forgot my point: I don't think front-end is really more complex than it was in 2014. It is more tedious, and use more tools, but also more streamlined and straightforward. My story about how llm fare is also about that: it seems really good at generating boilerplate/streamlined code, and front-end is mostly that. Also now I understand devs who say that llms took 50%+ of their workload, when before today I thought they were lying or not realising the lost time from using them.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#29
Yes! You mean Next.js app router caching :)

It becomes a little bit easier with Next.js 15 tho

If you can't wait or don't want to figure out the black box magix,I offer https://achromatic.dev which is basically all RSC, server actions and based on shadcn/ui.

Re: Ask HN: Is webdev getting complicated without results to show for it?

#30

I think the problem is that basically none of these technologies are optimized for a solo developer. I remember deploying cool websites on simple LAMP servers in college a few months after learning to code. I had implemented so many things with just jQuery, sqlite, and php (sign on, media player, messaging) Then I was told I needed to learn a javascript framework and react, I started doing tutorials but never deploye…

It's not too complicated if you leave out docker, ci/cd, cdn, waf, etc.

Not all the fault of node.js

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