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Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

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Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#21

Post by trumbitta2 »

> Strategies for attracting and retaining tech talent in a non-tech industry

Pay a decent amount + meaningful perks (yes insurance, no tennis table), be decent people, give them agency and let them see they're making an impact, allow them to use whatever hardware and software they think it's best to do their job, don't force them out of remote work if remote work is what they want, be decent people, be decent people, keep bureaucracy and excessive process out of their way, and last: be decent people.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#22

Post by dyeje »

I was the technical cofounder of a logtech startup. Logistics has a lot deep problems that need to be well integrated for a smooth UX. I think this is why you tend to see people eventually try to pivot into building a TMS (and why it takes so long to build one). They start solving a specific problem. They realize it’s not worth much without the whole picture and nobody wants to let other players integrate.

If your specific problem is well contained enough, it could be a good fit for in house. You mention that you’re filling the gaps with a low code platform. You could perhaps experiment with moving that piece in house as a trial run. You also say that your existing platform is stagnant, perhaps you could acquire them or the specific IP you utilize. You might learn some valuable insights about what you’d need to do in house even if you don’t end up seriously engaging in an acquisition or if it ends up falling through.

I wouldn’t be concerned about attracting talent, plenty of engineers in logistics already and it’s a hirer’s market right now.

Anyway, the devil’s in the details as you mentioned, my contact info is in my profile if you’d like to chat, happy to give what perspective I can.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#23

Post by debacle »

> Strategies for attracting and retaining tech talent in a non-tech industry

Treat your product team like wizards, not a cost center. Make sure the product director is a tech hire with business chops, not a sole tech hire (will let the team resume build) or a sole business hire (wont understand the peaks and troughs of velocity).

Ensure that the customer is clearly defined internally, that the KPIs are oriented towards the bottom line, and keep things well-oiled but lean.

Your best solution would be to spin off an internal company with eventual plans to commercialize what you build. You want someone with startup/entrepreneurial experience.

Anyone who promises you a product within 3 months or tells you it will take more than 12 months for an MVP is snowing you.

Happy to chat more, my email is in my profile.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#24

Post by codingdave »

This is a variation on the "build vs. buy" question that has been active in IT for decades. And answered for decades, too. Building something yourself makes sense only when that something drives the unique value prop from your business. But if your needs are something that is more generic, buy it.

So it all comes down to what you said about operating in a specific niche. If that niche is your value prop, and the reason software is difficult for you, then yes, in-house it and build what you need.

As far as retaining talent, money talks. Put a number on the value that solid software would bring to your business, and if that number can support compensating a software team at market rates or higher, you have the potential to retain a team. However, it also needs to be a good team -- solid leadership, with a culture that matches what is expected by software devs: respect, autonomy, flexibility, and trust.

If all of that sounds reasonable, go forth and build. If not, accept the struggle of having to buy.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#25

Post by motherfsck »

I've not worked in the logistics industry or with edifact specifically but have dealt with phased removals of large "turn key" products in a several heavily regulated industries. I've also gone the other way where we've replaced in house solutions with vendor provided software.

Email is in my profile, feel free to reach out. Full disclaimer, we're a small consulting/contracting agency but I'm still happy just to talk shop.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#27

Post by mindcrash »

> "This feels like a quagmire in which development can quickly stall."

It depends. In the end EDIFACT is just a protocol. If you go the Java route Smooks, for example, has pretty decent support to read/write EDIFACT messages.

If you do not want to do the heavy lifting yourself, both AWS and Azure provide SaaS services to do the heavy lifting for you (AWS: B2B Data Interchange, Azure: Azure Logic Apps)

> Besides, can we even attract experienced developers to a non-glamorous industry like logistics?

If you can provide a good salary and conditions: absolutely. And I should know, because my previous stint WAS in logistics :)

> Strategies for attracting and retaining tech talent in a non-tech industry

Provide a great work environment, good salary and conditions

> Experiences transitioning from third-party to in-house software (success stories and cautionary tales)

Start as easy as possible and don't hire anyone who wants to build a microservices based platform from scratch w/ almost zero domain knowledge at your org. Because that road will lead to nowhere. (Ask my previous colleagues who decided "we" should. I was against. They are still working on it, 3 yrs later, and nothing has been deployed yet because it still does not work properly.)

> Potential pitfalls we might not be considering.

Do not go the microservices road unless you really, really, really have to (and with good arguments!)

Need any more tips? Happy to help.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#28

Post by ensemblehq »

Whilst I don’t have a ton of experience in logistics, I have helped executives in other industries map out transition strategies.

For the software in question, a few considerations come to mind:

- how critical is the software to your company’s competitive advantage?

- how big is the vendor team supporting the software?

- how much revenue/customers does the vendor currently support?

- how much of the software is entirely custom developed vs modules built on top of other platforms?

- where does the software reside (on-prem/in-house acct vs mix vs vendor)?

Without knowing too much detail about the situation, if it’s an application that is easily testable and verifiable (I.e. perform an action results in observable actions), then it’s much easier to rewrite than an application with background functions and procedures so some level of due diligence or discussion with the vendor maybe useful.

Other alternative solutions that may make sense if software is critical:

- joint venture with vendor

- code acquisition + in-house team

- code/team acquisition

- short feasibility project to determine migration strategy

I’ve worked fairly extensively in transition/acquisition projects so happy to share more if there’s anything specific you’re interested in knowing.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#29

Post by solardev »

Does it have to be one or the other? Can you contract the work to an agency, in effect leasing developers without having to bring them in house?

I worry that without a culture to sustain and nurture a software team over time, whatever you build this year will become nightmarish tech debt a few years later. Dev turnover might be high due to limited advancement potential / lack of resume building opportunities / not enough sexy problems to work on. Institutional memory between generations of devs might be hard to maintain and your totally custom software might get harder and harder to work on and use as the years to by. It doesn't seem like a great way to run an essential part of your business.

Can you switch to a more responsive vendor but then find an agency to do the day to day dev work and add custom code as needed?

I've spent much of my career working in tech roles for non tech companies, and I've seen a lot of bespoke custom garbage that's really hard to work on. It ends up being more forensic than engineering work, with a lot more reverse engineering and landmine avoidance than new feature development or UI improvements. I try to steer these types of businesses into commercial off the shelf software whenever possible, but maybe building custom webhooks and such into them.

It's a lot easier to have a solid base built and maintained by a good vendor, with some small snippets of modular code (webhooks, plugins, extensions, etc.) added on top. No one feature is tied into everything else, so less experienced devs can fix or replace it modularly without having to reverse engineer your entire custom stack.

Re: Ask HN: Should we bring software dev in-house?

#30

Post by ensocode »

Interesting questions. I Work in the logistics/B2B area for quite some years and know this kind of problems well. I think in-sourcing development can be beneficial if your niche has so many special requirements and this is a core application. Or you can go with a trustworthy software house as a partner to be a bit more worry-free. Our customers usually do the project management and the requirements and we are taking care of the solution's technical aspects. In my experience this makes a perfect match especially in technically "non-sexy" environments like B2B, EDIFACT. On the other hand it takes time building trust from both sides.
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