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Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

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Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#21

Post by eli »

oropolo wrote: post #17
FounderBurr wrote: post #14

I’m sure we could spot what the high risk behavior in question is with your business if you provide us with the url. But truth is, stripe decides who they want to be in business with. They have decided they don’t want to be in business with you. Tough, but they also aren’t placing you on the MATCH list or other common nightmare senerios many non-compliant businesses find themselves in when dealing with violations of…

> I’m sure we could spot what the high risk behavior in question is with your business if you provide us with the url. Sleuth away: https://www.SupernerdMedia.com

Probably related to soliciting donations (See "Businesses that are prone to abuse by fraudulent actors" on that Stripe link)

A lot of payment processors do not like it when individuals (versus certified nonprofits) take donations. Because, well, it is more prone to fraud. It's a really easy way to cash out stolen credit card numbers. The systems are set up for a transaction, not a one way transfer of funds.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#22

Post by altairprime »

oropolo wrote: post #9
renewiltord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part are you confused about? You can’t just have a tip on a profile page but you can accept tips in connection with goods or services provided. Everything makes sense to me.

Is podcast production somehow not a good or service? Is the problem that I'm using the wrong word -- donation instead of tip -- on the button?

Are you producing podcasts individually for each person, and some subset of those people who receive a custom podcast tip you?

Are you charging money for your podcast to all listeners, and some subset of those people who pay for your podcast tip you?

If either of those is true, then your podcast production is a goods or service, and you should present that evidence to Stripe as they may have overlooked it. If you're just broadcasting the podcast and asking for donations, that's not going to qualify as "a monetary transaction in exchange for goods or services delivered to the buyer", since your goods/services are delivered regardless of whether transactions exist.

From a selfish bank standpoint, ask "How would a chargeback be evaluated for validity?". How will the bank's processes handle someone charging back their tip jar donation because you unknowingly say something upsetting on the next episode about their favorite hobby? Whether or not they grant the chargeback, you will end up terminating services with that bank.

I suspect this is why Patreon is constantly rotating card processors every few months: the banking chargeback system often refuses to cope with "payment without promise", unless it's a 501(c)(3) non-profit in which case the bank is paid in the form of tax breaks to deal with all this.

This also suggests that "Who is your payment processor?" is probably a trade secret for all existing tipjar/donation platforms.

(I am not your lawyer, this is not legal advice.)

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#23

Post by roywiggins »

oropolo wrote: post #10
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not your bank, it’s payment networks and stripe’s partner banks. Visa and MC are notorious for being the de-facto arbiter of allowed businesses, they have extensive yet vague guidelines on what is allowed due to porn stuff a long time ago and their partners try their best to read the tea leaves to see if what they do is fine.

If they are making editorial/values based judgement on who they allow to process payments on their platform then it seems they cannot be immune under the common carrier defense and are liable for being sued for refusing to do business with lawful entities, no?

Payment processors aren't "common carriers." Common carriers are a specific thing, and they're not:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_carrier

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#24

Post by marcinzm »

oropolo wrote: post #9
renewiltord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part are you confused about? You can’t just have a tip on a profile page but you can accept tips in connection with goods or services provided. Everything makes sense to me.

Is podcast production somehow not a good or service? Is the problem that I'm using the wrong word -- donation instead of tip -- on the button?

Do people get access to these things without sending you money?

edit: You can request to get paid EXTRA for a good or service you provide (a tip). You cannot request to get paid (in any way) while not providing a specific good or service in return.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#25

Post by pants2 »

You should just throw up your Ethereum address on your blog and let people freely and easily send you USDC. It's not a total replacement for Stripe but it's a lot easier than snail mail and there is no risk of getting your account shut down.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#26

Post by VoodooJuJu »

It's unlikely you were cancelled arbitrarily and it's almost certainly the case that you're engaged in a high-risk or restricted activity.

>https://stripe.com/legal/restricted-businesses ... nothing on this page applies to what I am doing.

I doubt it. Post the URL to your business website so we can see why it was cancelled by Stripe.

EDIT: I see you posted the link below, and as eli pointed out, it's probably due to soliciting donations. Per Stripe's restricted businesses link:

Crowdfunding, fundraising, and other donation-soliciting activities

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#27

Post by eli »

oropolo wrote: post #10
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not your bank, it’s payment networks and stripe’s partner banks. Visa and MC are notorious for being the de-facto arbiter of allowed businesses, they have extensive yet vague guidelines on what is allowed due to porn stuff a long time ago and their partners try their best to read the tea leaves to see if what they do is fine.

If they are making editorial/values based judgement on who they allow to process payments on their platform then it seems they cannot be immune under the common carrier defense and are liable for being sued for refusing to do business with lawful entities, no?

No, Visa and Mastercard aren't common carrier and they don't need a defense. Like any other business in America they can choose not to serve you for any reason or no reason at all (so long as it isn't the illegal discrimination of a protected class)

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#28

Post by [deleted] »

oropolo wrote: post #9
renewiltord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part are you confused about? You can’t just have a tip on a profile page but you can accept tips in connection with goods or services provided. Everything makes sense to me.

Is podcast production somehow not a good or service? Is the problem that I'm using the wrong word -- donation instead of tip -- on the button?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#29

Post by sbarre »

oropolo wrote: post #9
renewiltord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part are you confused about? You can’t just have a tip on a profile page but you can accept tips in connection with goods or services provided. Everything makes sense to me.

Is podcast production somehow not a good or service? Is the problem that I'm using the wrong word -- donation instead of tip -- on the button?

It's probably because the actual payment/donation is not directly connected to the podcast production, but rather you perform the work elsewhere, and then ask people to go tip you. Other than in your head(s), there's no actual connections between the work and the payment.

You can't reasonably expect Stripe to just take your word for it, at the scale that they operate.

Re: Ask HN: Is Stripe the new PayPal, cancelling user accounts without explanation?

#30

Post by legitster »

oropolo wrote: post #4
legitster wrote: post #3

https://stripe.com/legal/restricted-businesses https://support.stripe.com/questions/requirements-for-accept... . > Content creation - Transactions that provide compensation to creators without an underlying piece of digital content associated. Examples include subscriptions to free, public content or a tip button on a profile page It seems like an arbitrary restriction, but Stripe also works a lot more closely with b…

So if I sell digital certificates -- a PDF that says someone donated to my little media side-hustle -- it would be all good? See that's the problem: nobody will tell me what I can do to come into compliance. And as for the banks: I have been paying my taxes for years and the bank connected to this account has zero issues with what I do and are happy to deposit checks made out to my DBA (and then charge me a fee for h…

Sure, they pay $2 for a "digital sticker" or something.

> bank connected to this account has zero issues with what I do

Stripe is an intermediary and I would guess this has to do with anti-laundering rules. Your bank doesn't need to engage in this because they have access to everything you do with your money and has more ways to catch/stop you.

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