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Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

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Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#21

Post by BrandoElFollito »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #20
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #18

I am very, very sensitive to the "cultural fit" in my organization. It has nothing to do with you being gay, straight, black, white, woman, man or other typical trigger words. It has a lot with you behaving in a way that will be acceptable/enjoyable to the team. This does not mean that you have to be like them! I have all kind of personalities in several teams and they differ vastly . The thing that binds them is tha…

How do you control for bias and blindspots?

I don't. As I said, there is the natural "chemical fit" that you have or not with someone.

I consciously avoid making up my mind after the first seconds or minutes (which is an atavistic reaction) but after an hour or so I usually have an idea of "no", "yes", "not sure" (for the "will fit in" perspective).

Since the teams are already quite diverse, there are no obvious bias that would pop up. I want to have people of all kinds (everyone can provide something different) so i am very open by definition. But I need to feel that they will be a good fit.

This is of course completely arbitrary and based on gut feelings.

I am not sure about which blindspots you have in mind, though?

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#22

Post by paulcole »

> an HR lady

First of all would you have said “an HR man” if that was the case?

Second, it’s somebody’s job to determine who’s a good fit or not. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. But it’s their call. If they’re good at it, they might get to keep doing it. And if they’re bad at it, they might not get to keep doing it.

Honestly this is partially why it’s preferable to let people know that a company is moving ahead with other candidates but never give a reason. Just invites follow-up questions and confusion when the reason is that someone at the company didn’t want to hire you.

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#23

Post by joshxyz »

simply didn't pass the vibe check, sometimes it's just simple as that.

and it's not unethical or illegal. what we think is right and what we feel right are two different things.

maybe logically you're a great candidate, yet her gut feeling just tells her you're not a good fit there.

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#24

Post by rrr_oh_man »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #21
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you control for bias and blindspots?

I don't. As I said, there is the natural "chemical fit" that you have or not with someone. I consciously avoid making up my mind after the first seconds or minutes (which is an atavistic reaction) but after an hour or so I usually have an idea of "no", "yes", "not sure" (for the "will fit in" perspective). Since the teams are already quite diverse, there are no obvious bias that would pop up. I want to have people of…

> I am not sure about which blindspots you have in mind, though?

Not trying to throw shade, but in my experience people who are confident that they have no bias usually do, often heaps of it, and are just not that much aware of it.

Especially when it comes to 'gut decisions' ('chemical fit'?).

Bias is human and we are all biased in one way or another. Saying that you’re not is a red flag, quite frankly, at least for me.

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#25

Post by Souzana »

paulcole wrote: post #22

> an HR lady First of all would you have said “an HR man” if that was the case? Second, it’s somebody’s job to determine who’s a good fit or not. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. But it’s their call. If they’re good at it, they might get to keep doing it. And if they’re bad at it, they might not get to keep doing it. Honestly this is partially why it’s preferable to let people know that a…

I think I said that because I noticed that she was kind of rude in a woman way. Not easy to explain this one here though.

I honestly think that if I was a female she would like me more for example.

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#26

Post by Souzana »

1ba9115454 wrote: post #19
rapfaria wrote: post #13

In 2008 while doing interviews, I had a lady ask me as the final question: - Do you play any instrument? Say the trumpet, the piano... anything? I did play the guitar all my life. - No, I don't. - Anyone on your family have that "knack" for instruments? Something-something art? - No mam. Of course I was turned down. One thing that I can say about these bullshit questions though, is that to maximize chances, you can g…

Why did you say you didn't play an instrument when you did?

he probably wanted to skip the bullshit

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#27

Post by ted_bunny »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #24
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. As I said, there is the natural "chemical fit" that you have or not with someone. I consciously avoid making up my mind after the first seconds or minutes (which is an atavistic reaction) but after an hour or so I usually have an idea of "no", "yes", "not sure" (for the "will fit in" perspective). Since the teams are already quite diverse, there are no obvious bias that would pop up. I want to have people of…

> I am not sure about which blindspots you have in mind, though? Not trying to throw shade, but in my experience people who are confident that they have no bias usually do, often heaps of it, and are just not that much aware of it. Especially when it comes to 'gut decisions' ('chemical fit'?). Bias is human and we are all biased in one way or another. Saying that you’re not is a red flag, quite frankly, at least for…

They didn't say they don't have blindspots. They said they don't control for them. And it makes sense to me. Yes, we have our blind spots but there's no method for finding them, nor is there a guarantee that the information they conceal is any more crucial than the rest.

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#28

Post by paulcole »

Souzana wrote: post #25
paulcole wrote: post #22

> an HR lady First of all would you have said “an HR man” if that was the case? Second, it’s somebody’s job to determine who’s a good fit or not. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. But it’s their call. If they’re good at it, they might get to keep doing it. And if they’re bad at it, they might not get to keep doing it. Honestly this is partially why it’s preferable to let people know that a…

I think I said that because I noticed that she was kind of rude in a woman way. Not easy to explain this one here though. I honestly think that if I was a female she would like me more for example.

Yeah I’d take a deep look at what you just said and work on that first.

Hard to imagine any company who wants women to be comfortable working there to think that you’re a good culture fit based on the 3 sentences here.

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#29

Post by Souzana »

paulcole wrote: post #28
Souzana wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I said that because I noticed that she was kind of rude in a woman way. Not easy to explain this one here though. I honestly think that if I was a female she would like me more for example.

Yeah I’d take a deep look at what you just said and work on that first. Hard to imagine any company who wants women to be comfortable working there to think that you’re a good culture fit based on the 3 sentences here.

I'm sure she would like me more if i was a female.

But apart from that, it wasn't just about her i think, others were also rude in a more subtle way. I really wouldn't like to work with them anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Getting rejected by HR for cultural reasons?

#30

Post by gardenhedge »

SonOfKyuss wrote: post #7
znpy wrote: post #3

Yeah, “cultural fit” is a jolly term used not to give an actual explanation. In fairness though, they don’t owe you an explanation.

It’s also often a euphemism for not being a member of the same race/gender/age/class group as the rest of the team

Is it though? Why is it an accepted term for such a long time then?

Culture here refers to the company's culture - not the candidates.

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