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Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

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Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#21

Post by throwaway1183 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #17
throwaway1183 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it likes transition into a business roles or try to be CEO. My question, is there no way to be eternally stuck as "senior/staff engineer". I do not want anything beyond that. The salary of an average senior/staff engineer is always greater than median salary of the country. That should solve all the living expenses.

You can if course stay at that level forever. Living expenses may or may not be constant. If you have a family expect them to increase alot while having less time to keep up with tech.

Oh no, I thought the salary would be adjusted for inflation. Are there no social safety nets? This is really sad to know that salary isn't adjusted for living expenses!

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#22

Post by ttymck »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #6

Back end and devops probably give the best combo of pay and work life balance. Front end had you chasing frameworks. Front end for you own projects is OK but for a company get ready to learn the latest React nonsense while supporting Angular, JQuery Plugins and everything else that was in vogue over the life of your codebase. Unless you join a disciplined team that doesn’t chase fads or rewrites everything each time.…

In my opinion, the reasons you say frontend is bad, are actually the reasons why frontend is a good choice. And why I do not enjoy working on frontend.

Frontend devs get to waste so much time chasing frameworks and fads, and never seem to be held accountable for a functional product that works well. Form state and error handling are afterthoughts compared to animations and drop shadows.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#23

Post by jstx1 »

throwaway1183 wrote: post #19
Exuma wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk about a loser mentality. Stay far away from my companies … barf

wow, what is wrong with being average and trying to enjoy life? I am pretty sure you have zero contribution to llvm, pytorch, react, vue, js, c, python, linux, or heck even the device you are typing. You also fall on same average category. If you had any idea, you would have written something about it. The talent at top are polite enough to see the difference. Your arrogance reminds me of some egoist friend.

This isn't average:

> I have given up on hopes of learning. There is no such thing as learning after highschool.

This is refusing to learn at an industry where continually learning is one of the most important things you need to do. You're actively choosing to be bad at your job.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#24

Post by throwaway1183 »

jstx1 wrote: post #23
throwaway1183 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, what is wrong with being average and trying to enjoy life? I am pretty sure you have zero contribution to llvm, pytorch, react, vue, js, c, python, linux, or heck even the device you are typing. You also fall on same average category. If you had any idea, you would have written something about it. The talent at top are polite enough to see the difference. Your arrogance reminds me of some egoist friend.

This isn't average: > I have given up on hopes of learning. There is no such thing as learning after highschool. This is refusing to learn at an industry where continually learning is one of the most important things you need to do. You're actively choosing to be bad at your job.

I don't know how to argue on that. Learning is a slow process that takes time and effort. The results aren't visible immediately. Meanwhile industry wants to get the job done and be over with it. We are hired to work.

I don't want to go home and learn more about the things so that I can do the job better. There is literally no incentive in doing it better than just doing it alright.

I would rather learn things from diverse topics and interests that will benefit that I can enjoy in the long run.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#25

Post by icedchai »

throwaway1183 wrote: post #24
jstx1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't average: > I have given up on hopes of learning. There is no such thing as learning after highschool. This is refusing to learn at an industry where continually learning is one of the most important things you need to do. You're actively choosing to be bad at your job.

I don't know how to argue on that. Learning is a slow process that takes time and effort. The results aren't visible immediately. Meanwhile industry wants to get the job done and be over with it. We are hired to work. I don't want to go home and learn more about the things so that I can do the job better. There is literally no incentive in doing it better than just doing it alright. I would rather learn things from d…

Learning is part of the job. Finding information on technical topics is soooo much easier today than it was 20 or 30 years ago! Watch youtube, download an ebook, look at somebody's blog. When I as a young teenager, learning about programming in the early 90's, I had to convince my parents to order physical books that would take weeks to arrive.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#26

Post by throwaway1183 »

icedchai wrote: post #25
throwaway1183 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to argue on that. Learning is a slow process that takes time and effort. The results aren't visible immediately. Meanwhile industry wants to get the job done and be over with it. We are hired to work. I don't want to go home and learn more about the things so that I can do the job better. There is literally no incentive in doing it better than just doing it alright. I would rather learn things from d…

Learning is part of the job. Finding information on technical topics is soooo much easier today than it was 20 or 30 years ago! Watch youtube, download an ebook, look at somebody's blog. When I as a young teenager, learning about programming in the early 90's, I had to convince my parents to order physical books that would take weeks to arrive.

> Learning is part of the job.

I don't know what to say. For example, I recently designed some webpage or made some prototype app using X framework in Y language. Do you consider that I learnt something?

I don't know, I feel like that isn't learning. I just made the thing work because I read some stuff, processed information and did some hit and trial.

Compared that to something like "ah hah!" moments; those are extremely rare at work. It only happens at debugging. The reason why I am stating it is because I have forgotten a lot of these things. What stuck with me are the basics and foundations and it took years to be reinforced.

I doubt you will find a job where you get to learn in a proper way.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#27

Post by Exuma »

throwaway1183 wrote: post #19
Exuma wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk about a loser mentality. Stay far away from my companies … barf

wow, what is wrong with being average and trying to enjoy life? I am pretty sure you have zero contribution to llvm, pytorch, react, vue, js, c, python, linux, or heck even the device you are typing. You also fall on same average category. If you had any idea, you would have written something about it. The talent at top are polite enough to see the difference. Your arrogance reminds me of some egoist friend.

You have so many warped views I don't even know where to start. God have mercy on your soul.

  I have given up on hopes of learning. There is no such thing as learning after highschool. It's always one thing after another. College is chasing grades. Post graduate chasing papers. Never got a true chance to dive and learn. There is no room for failure. All I had to do was put of patch work to clear the subjects.

  How can I expect myself to be good when I have cheated the system throughout my life. 

  I would love to be average. No responsibility. Slightly better pay.

  You also fall on same average category. If you had any idea, you would have written something about it.
These statements are the true definition of a loser. You should find a way to change that and contemplate how absolutely absurd the statements you are making are. Have a moment of deep self introspection and reflection instead of knee jerk whining.

Just the single statement alone "There is no such thing as learning after highschool" is quite literally one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Start with that one... contemplate how........ absolutely, and utterly, incorrect that statement is. If you disagree, then start to pick apart your reasons for disagreeing, analyze how others outside yourself seem to be doing it and you are not. Stop lying to yourself.

And most of all, raise your goal posts above being as mediocre as possible, jesus christ.

Contemplate, even further, how ridiculous it is that you think its only possible to enjoy yourself if you have no responsibility and are a mediocre piss-ant. I can't even type this without feeling physical pain at your views. I hope you are 18 years old or something, and these things will sort them self out for you later in life.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#28

Post by android521 »

Exuma wrote: post #15
throwaway1183 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, totally. At least I would try to communicate on important decisions. However, I have zero interest in making decisions, making presentation, trying to prove things or any of that. All I want is a task that is achievable in given allocated time and fits my skill level. I have given up on hopes of learning. There is no such thing as learning after highschool. It's always one thing after another. College is chasin…

Talk about a loser mentality. Stay far away from my companies … barf

By definition , most people must be average programmers. everyone cannot be 'extraordinary'. I am pretty sure that you're probably average too unless you're better than 99% of the programmers.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#29

Post by Exuma »

android521 wrote: post #28
Exuma wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk about a loser mentality. Stay far away from my companies … barf

By definition , most people must be average programmers. everyone cannot be 'extraordinary'. I am pretty sure that you're probably average too unless you're better than 99% of the programmers.

I'm absolutely not talking about "average programmers", also I am better than average by a large margin (based objectively on what I have achieved alone as a developer/entrepreneur, and comments made by another developer who is a pioneer in his field, and one of the best developers I know), but that is beside the point. I'm talking about WANTING to be average, and the other assorted insane views this OP has.

Nothing wrong with being average programmer, everyone starts somewhere, and my early Stack Overflow questions are hilarious.

Re: Ask HN: Which role in software engineering is the best for average person?

#30

Post by throwaway1183 »

Exuma wrote: post #27
throwaway1183 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, what is wrong with being average and trying to enjoy life? I am pretty sure you have zero contribution to llvm, pytorch, react, vue, js, c, python, linux, or heck even the device you are typing. You also fall on same average category. If you had any idea, you would have written something about it. The talent at top are polite enough to see the difference. Your arrogance reminds me of some egoist friend.

You have so many warped views I don't even know where to start. God have mercy on your soul. I have given up on hopes of learning. There is no such thing as learning after highschool. It's always one thing after another. College is chasing grades. Post graduate chasing papers. Never got a true chance to dive and learn. There is no room for failure. All I had to do was put of patch work to clear the subjects. How can…

Okay, so going by your definition, I am a loser. Your first attempt put me in a derogatory way saying, "Stay far away from my companies.... barf"

Then you stick to the idea of calling me a loser from your point of view. I don't know what you are trying to prove but I was just asking a question on a way to genuinely get by in life.

We do not live in the same world. So what rule applies to you doesn't apply to me. Yet still I asked this question because being an average has a statistically better chance (as the law of large numbers holds). I wanted to get a realistic view of average people and what they do. If you look at other comments of mine, I am not against learning. I am against the definition of learning which is phony. It is one thing to know something, and it is a different thing to learn. I have seen many so-called learned ones struggle with the applications of their knowledge. At that point, how do you know if the person has actually learnt anything? People can grow beyond their limits. There is multiple dimension in life. And learning doesn't necessarily mean always learning the next hype stuff or yada yada. That is practically useless.

I humbly request you to point out the number of situations in your life where you applied second-order partial differential equations to solve anything that you are doing. (If that rings a bell, that is.) Or heck even used some esoteric algorithms to improve some heuristics. Bet you still use the fundamentals you learned in college and apply them. Did you ever truly learn new things? Are you apt to catch up on all the buzz that is going on in the AI, dissect everything and teach to a high school graduate? Can you learn the graphics and say implement Gaussian splatting on your own system? Or even write your own transpiler to do something? I do not know your background. I do not understand why you are so offended here to think that I am a brainless person who burts or whines without thinking.

There are multiple thoughts and stages of thoughts before admitting something. You make it sound like I never tried. Trust me, I have. I have done more than you. It sucks to be blocked when I can't show any physical result of learning because of limitations from financial stuff. Then if someone would fund, there is a lack of confidence. The guilt that I may expend their resources over nothing.

The only reason I want to be average is because I know I am slightly above average say (51%). It is just easy for me down there to work in an average way. It is more relaxing. I don't have to challenge myself or pull out my hair. Then eventually I hope to find something else in life.

We have a different perspective on life. You think in your own way, to rise above mediocrity. I think of embracing it. I just want to know what are the options so that I can make some life choices.

I regret choosing a hard path in life. It never gave me anything. Now I want to stop pursuing it. Stop spinning in the wheel.

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