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Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

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Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#21

Post by sillysaurusx »

__dave__ wrote: post #20
sillysaurusx wrote: post #17

I've switched domains four or five times now. I started with gamedev, went to finance, then pentesting, then machine learning. The key is to have a strong portfolio. Every successful switch was based on that. Even in areas where you can't really show a portfolio, like pentesting, I was good at it and was able to demonstrate it. It's really that simple. Be good, and show that you're good. Don't wait for someone to sho…

Nice. I've worked for awhile in backend dev and infrastructure/cloudops, and thought about trying to transition to pentesting to try something new. What did you like about it? What did you not like? What made you decide to leave the domain for ML?

It's mostly a writing gig. (tptacek disagrees, but that's fine -- we disagree on lots of things.) You don't really make anything, and I liked making things. It was kind of that simple.

But! I also met some of the most interesting and capable people I've worked with. So if you're interested, I encourage you to give it a shot.

As for "why ML," I liked ML and it was full of mystery, which was good enough for me.

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#22

Post by JohnMakin »

koblas wrote: post #8

Keep in mind that the layoffs earlier this year have still had a huge impact on the job market for software engineers. Many companies moved their hiring bar higher and have gotten more selective over their canidates. 2 years ago, if you pretty much had a pulse you could have jumped fields (yes, some jobs did require specialized knowledge). Many Canadian companies are not doing "interesting" things so I can understand…

> Keep in mind that the layoffs earlier this year have still had a huge impact on the job market for software engineers.

People keep saying this like it's a fact but I've not seen anything in the employment data to suggest this is remotely the case. Tech unemployment is startlingly low, and even during some of the massive layoff months, tech was still adding jobs faster than it was shedding them. Last I checked, tech unemployment was at 1.5-2%, much lower than the national average (USA at least).

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#23

Post by PaulHoule »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #17

I've switched domains four or five times now. I started with gamedev, went to finance, then pentesting, then machine learning. The key is to have a strong portfolio. Every successful switch was based on that. Even in areas where you can't really show a portfolio, like pentesting, I was good at it and was able to demonstrate it. It's really that simple. Be good, and show that you're good. Don't wait for someone to sho…

It helps to be be entering areas where demand is exploding and the supply of experienced people is thin. I have a long track record of being fast to pick up the methods of new domains and I’ve frequently had people riding my tail to help them out with a project in a new domain, even if I wasn’t really that interested in the switch.

It’s a part of my origin story because the whole reason I left physics and went into software development was that I watched one of the best physicists of our time crying every night because he had no idea where his next job was coming from despite having written half of a very good textbook and numerous great papers. He made it big in the end but I had neither the tolerance for that nor the talent or motivation. I’ve had the occasional job search that took most of a year but I’ve had some that lasted 72 hours.

Thus I skip all the fancy programming languages and work in the big commercial ones in demand unless I get cash on the barrelhead. For years I avoided Python but I worked for a few people who needed “data science” so they paid for my education.

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#24

Post by havkom »

Apply ”lower level” approaches to your current job and get experiences you can talk about in application processes. For example, if you code backend C#:

- Apply “lower level algorithms” to tasks where it fits (if you find good use cases you will be seen as a genius by the other “high-level” programmers)

- Implement “lower level programming approaches” to solve problems. For example, there may be good use cases for emitting MSIL-code in parts of projects (for example where interfaces are injected, you could inject emitted classes on the fly for example in some instances). Again, you will be seen as a genius if you find the right use cases.

- Implement “lower level” communication protocols where suited, for example a home made UDP protocol where you benefit from not having a stream and some packets are not needed.

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#25

Post by extr »

As a hiring manager, I'm not averse to hiring someone with non-domain experience for a domain-specific role with but I usually have a few apprehensions. You can make yourself a better candidate by pre-empting these questions:

* Were you actually good at your previous domain? (Be Good)

* Does this person know they actually like working in this new domain? Or do they just think it might be "interesting"? (Show some proof that you are already investing yourself in this new domain)

* Do they have a track record of successfully learning new things in the past? (Any other non-domain skills you've picked up that show me you can be successful doing that?)

* Are they at a natural career inflection point and a good time for a transition? (You just got a Masters, so this is covered)

Trying for a totally cold start is tough though. I would try to get a foot in the door via career fair or university contacts. Use whatever coursework you have completed in the area to show aptitude/interest. Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#26

Post by sokoloff »

JohnMakin wrote: post #22
koblas wrote: post #8

Keep in mind that the layoffs earlier this year have still had a huge impact on the job market for software engineers. Many companies moved their hiring bar higher and have gotten more selective over their canidates. 2 years ago, if you pretty much had a pulse you could have jumped fields (yes, some jobs did require specialized knowledge). Many Canadian companies are not doing "interesting" things so I can understand…

> Keep in mind that the layoffs earlier this year have still had a huge impact on the job market for software engineers. People keep saying this like it's a fact but I've not seen anything in the employment data to suggest this is remotely the case. Tech unemployment is startlingly low, and even during some of the massive layoff months, tech was still adding jobs faster than it was shedding them. Last I checked, tech…

I think what I’ve seen is that with the near hiring freeze at Amazon and a substantial slowdown at Google means that the next tier down of employers are having their pick of candidates that they might have had a harder time landing when Amazon and Google were hiring 5-figures of SWEs every year. So, even if everyone ends up being employed, the selectivity could still be higher than normal. I know we amped up our thresholds for hiring quality.

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#28

Post by __dave__ »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #21
__dave__ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. I've worked for awhile in backend dev and infrastructure/cloudops, and thought about trying to transition to pentesting to try something new. What did you like about it? What did you not like? What made you decide to leave the domain for ML?

It's mostly a writing gig. (tptacek disagrees, but that's fine -- we disagree on lots of things.) You don't really make anything, and I liked making things. It was kind of that simple. But! I also met some of the most interesting and capable people I've worked with. So if you're interested, I encourage you to give it a shot. As for "why ML," I liked ML and it was full of mystery, which was good enough for me.

From the outside looking in that's pretty much what I guessed: Lots of report-writing and little if any programming, but a lot of very talented and interesting people.

It seems like with the proliferation of bug-bounty platforms today, there's a fairly clear way to prove yourself and get in the door while picking up a little cash on the side. Heck, maybe just dabbling in bounty programs is enough to scratch the itch.

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#29

Post by maxlamb »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #21
__dave__ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. I've worked for awhile in backend dev and infrastructure/cloudops, and thought about trying to transition to pentesting to try something new. What did you like about it? What did you not like? What made you decide to leave the domain for ML?

It's mostly a writing gig. (tptacek disagrees, but that's fine -- we disagree on lots of things.) You don't really make anything, and I liked making things. It was kind of that simple. But! I also met some of the most interesting and capable people I've worked with. So if you're interested, I encourage you to give it a shot. As for "why ML," I liked ML and it was full of mystery, which was good enough for me.

For your switch to ML did you also work on a portfolio of ML projects? If so, what's an example ML project you worked on that you were able to show your future employer?

Re: Ask HN: How to switch software engineering domains

#30

Post by myth_drannon »

JohnMakin wrote: post #22
koblas wrote: post #8

Keep in mind that the layoffs earlier this year have still had a huge impact on the job market for software engineers. Many companies moved their hiring bar higher and have gotten more selective over their canidates. 2 years ago, if you pretty much had a pulse you could have jumped fields (yes, some jobs did require specialized knowledge). Many Canadian companies are not doing "interesting" things so I can understand…

> Keep in mind that the layoffs earlier this year have still had a huge impact on the job market for software engineers. People keep saying this like it's a fact but I've not seen anything in the employment data to suggest this is remotely the case. Tech unemployment is startlingly low, and even during some of the massive layoff months, tech was still adding jobs faster than it was shedding them. Last I checked, tech…

Tech hiring is completely frozen. 2 years ago I had ~80% response rate, now it's 1%
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