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Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#21

Post by brudgers »

jstarfish wrote: post #17
brudgers wrote: post #2

I would place my bets on: CD-R because it is still around after more than two decades and the media is still in production, there are many drives and they are repairable. My second choice would be DVD-R for similar reasons, but less history. Third choice would be FAT formatted spinning disks used as write once. But they are much more susceptible to environmental flux. Anything that is expensive or hard to come by or…

Bitrot will claim the first two. Go cloud, ZFS or tape.

Archival grade optical disks have an expected life of 100 years in archival conditions.

The cloud has a very low bus factor. Miss a payment and the data is gone. It provides high availability but low permanence and requires active management. It is inherently a poor archival medium.

“Tape” is a cluster of incompatible specifications and implementations. I know you don’t mean Quic 40, but that’s tape and about the last system that sold to regular computer users in big box retailers.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#22

Post by bakoo »

brudgers wrote: post #2

I would place my bets on: CD-R because it is still around after more than two decades and the media is still in production, there are many drives and they are repairable. My second choice would be DVD-R for similar reasons, but less history. Third choice would be FAT formatted spinning disks used as write once. But they are much more susceptible to environmental flux. Anything that is expensive or hard to come by or…

I have fewer problems reading my C64 tapes and 5,25" floppies from 1984-1987 than reading my 1994-2001 CDRs and DVDRs.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#23

Post by elamje »

I’ve been considering this for over 5 years.

So far, cutting edge commercial is https://www.piql.com/, the Norwegian company that did the GitHub Arctic code vault. Their tapes have instructions on how to decode the data inscribed on the tape itself.

Truly cutting edge (non-commercial) is Microsoft’s Project Silica optical storage as well as DNA storage.

I’ve been thinking about building something in this space since I started my career, but the business seems incredibly hard to figure out a revenue model for. Trying to have someone pay up front for eternity(?), always seemed like a steep price. Would love to hear others thoughts if they’ve talked to people about this.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#24

Post by xupybd »

m-p-3 wrote: post #19
wanderingstan wrote: post #18

MDisc DVDs and Bluray discs are supposed to last for a thousand years. https://www.mdisc.com/ I’ve been thinking of this question too, and think a combination of cloud storage (GDrive + iCloud), HDs, and these MDiscs is what I’ll do. Just haven’t bought the MDrive writer yet.

And more specifically "pressed" discs, not those you can burn at home. Those you can burn at home relies on a chemical reaction which will degrade after several years, faster if exposed to sunlight.

M-Disc you can burn at home but do not rely on chemical reactions.

From the website: Verbatim M DISC™ optical media is the new standard for digital archival storage. Unlike traditional optical media, which utilize dyes that can break down over time, data stored on an M DISC is engraved on a patented inorganic write layer – it will not fade or deteriorate. This unique engraving process renders these archival grade discs practically impervious to environmental exposure, including light, temperature and humidity.

ISO/IEC 16963 standard longevity tests have proven the durability of M DISC technology, and it withstood rigorous testing by the US Department of Defense. Based on ISO/IEC 16963 testing, M DISC media has a projected lifetime of several hundred years. https://www.verbatim.com/subcat/optical-media/m-disc/#:~:tex....

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#25

Post by xupybd »

elamje wrote: post #23

I’ve been considering this for over 5 years. So far, cutting edge commercial is https://www.piql.com/ , the Norwegian company that did the GitHub Arctic code vault. Their tapes have instructions on how to decode the data inscribed on the tape itself. Truly cutting edge (non-commercial) is Microsoft’s Project Silica optical storage as well as DNA storage. I’ve been thinking about building something in this space since…

One thing I would pay for is a way to engrave my SSH keys into thin steel plates as a QR code.

I have a safe with my critical keys in it but that is only fire proof for 3 hours. If things got really hot those are gone. In theory it shouldn't be an issue as I have them backed up other places but it would give me peace of mind to have them on a fire proof media.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#26

Post by dehrmann »

wanderingstan wrote: post #18

MDisc DVDs and Bluray discs are supposed to last for a thousand years. https://www.mdisc.com/ I’ve been thinking of this question too, and think a combination of cloud storage (GDrive + iCloud), HDs, and these MDiscs is what I’ll do. Just haven’t bought the MDrive writer yet.

One thing about DVDs and Bluray is they have a long life expectancy because of the Lindy Effect. DVDs have been around 25 years, and the latest console generation can still read them. Expect another 25 years.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#27

Post by dehrmann »

brudgers wrote: post #2

I would place my bets on: CD-R because it is still around after more than two decades and the media is still in production, there are many drives and they are repairable. My second choice would be DVD-R for similar reasons, but less history. Third choice would be FAT formatted spinning disks used as write once. But they are much more susceptible to environmental flux. Anything that is expensive or hard to come by or…

> But they are much more susceptible to environmental flux.

Sadly, magneto-optical discs never caught on.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#28

Post by dehrmann »

jstarfish wrote: post #17
brudgers wrote: post #2

I would place my bets on: CD-R because it is still around after more than two decades and the media is still in production, there are many drives and they are repairable. My second choice would be DVD-R for similar reasons, but less history. Third choice would be FAT formatted spinning disks used as write once. But they are much more susceptible to environmental flux. Anything that is expensive or hard to come by or…

Bitrot will claim the first two. Go cloud, ZFS or tape.

CDs and DVDs have error correction. As do hard drives, but it isn't baked in the spec. It's whatever the manufacturer thinks is enough.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best media for long term archival storage?

#29

Post by jbarham »

For photos or documents like wills I think the best long term storage solution is still physical prints in a shoebox. Yes, they'll fade slowly over time, but will still be viewable for decades, or even centuries if printed using pigment inks on archival papers.

Of course there's still a chance that physical prints can be lost, stolen or destroyed in a house fire. But I think overall that's statistically much less likely to happen than digital media becoming obsolete or unreadable, or data stored online being deleted because the original uploader stopped paying the storage bill or didn't arrange for transfer of their accounts after their death.

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