Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#21

Post by MuffinFlavored » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

dotBen wrote: post #7

In FAANG/larger companies they outline the management track and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting. The problem is those roles are harder to find and grow into in smaller and even medium companies. Eng pay tops out unless you gain management responsibilities whereas at those large companies they will pay staff…

> and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting.

I could be wrong but it sounds like the OP doesn't even want to be a staff engineer (if my understanding of staff engineer is correct).

https://davidxiang.com/2021/01/19/staff-software-engineer-re...

I'm pretty sure you're still expected to guide other engineers (co-workers/teammates), speak almost as a buffer with management, etc.

If you want to be heads down coding and not dealing with people, I don't think staff engineer is the right track?

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#22

Post by martythemaniak » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:01 PM UTC

It's definitely not childish to not want to be a manager, but beware trying to have it both ways - power without responsibility, autonomy without accountability etc. That would actually be childish.

As others have noted, the most straightforward thing to do here is to hire a manager to do most of what your current job entails and for you to move into senior/tech lead position. But if you do that and give up hiring, then you won't get a choice as to who to work with. If you give up supervising marketing's proposals, then you'll have to work to work on hair-brained ideas you could have veto'd in your current role. You give up mentoring/supervising junior folks and well, you'll still have to deal with their lower quality contributions, etc.

As you contemplate giving up this role, make sure you're ok giving up all the privileges that come with it as well.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#23

Post by rr888 » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:09 PM UTC

borbulon wrote: post #18

First off, there's this weird thing about management - "you're good at your job, let's give you a completely different job to do." It sounds like your company is more worried about someone's work product than the person, which is a shitty thing to manage. You shouldn't have to "check on others to ensure they're working as they should." You shouldn't have to "..sit with someone for a couple hours to explains how I'd l…

> there's this weird thing about management - "you're good at your job, let's give you a completely different job to do."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#24

Post by dncornholio » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:09 PM UTC

Lead developer should not be about management. It seems your company confuses your role with project management?

My role as lead dev is picking tech for solutions, maintaining in-house software and only sometimes I get to talk to a client. I only get invited to interviews but don't have to set them up.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#25

Post by bpicolo » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

dotBen wrote: post #7

In FAANG/larger companies they outline the management track and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting. The problem is those roles are harder to find and grow into in smaller and even medium companies. Eng pay tops out unless you gain management responsibilities whereas at those large companies they will pay staff…

There are a ton of small/midsize startups that also split the tracks these days, at least in the USA

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#26

Post by irrational » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

I have a friend who works for a Fortune 100 company. He was moved into a management position where he was managing a team within the IT org. Like you, he absolutely hated it and realized he much preferred being an individual contributor. It took him a long time to get out of his position and back into an individual contributor position, but he made it clear that it was either that or he would quit. Well, he is to valuable for them to let go, so they gave in and let him move back, eventually. Though he says that they still try to rope him into management meetings to get his input, but he refuses because he doesn't want to be pulled back into management.

I think of it as the fighter pilot problem. People become fighter pilots because they want to fly planes, not because they want to sit behind a desk managing other pilots. But, if you stick around long enough, the military will try to push you into a desk management position. But what you really want to do is keep flying.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#27

Post by bpicolo » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #21

dotBen wrote: post #7

In FAANG/larger companies they outline the management track and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting. The problem is those roles are harder to find and grow into in smaller and even medium companies. Eng pay tops out unless you gain management responsibilities whereas at those large companies they will pay staff…

> and the staff engineer track. It sounds like you simply want to do the latter - so no, there is nothing wrong or unusual with what you are wanting. I could be wrong but it sounds like the OP doesn't even want to be a staff engineer (if my understanding of staff engineer is correct). https://davidxiang.com/2021/01/19/staff-software-engineer-re... I'm pretty sure you're still expected to guide other engineers (co-wor…

Staff engineers are not a monolith. Software engineering is a huge discipline. There are staff engineers out there that do more architect/solver types of work.

https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes

In any case, leadership skills tend to go with the territory.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#28

Post by ctrwu2843 » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:25 PM UTC

If you do all the hiring yourself, what is to stop you hiring someone to do all the stuff you don't want to do ?

I am sure you could bring in an engineering manager, project manager, technical product manager or whatever you feel is the most appropriate job title to palm off the aspects of the job you are less keen on.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#29

Post by ath0 » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

Lots of stuff in the comments already about dual-track and external career options.

I'd add: can you hire a deputy who enjoys doing this?

* Ask for the next project management hire to be a true TPM, and try to pull someone who's working on something boring but is really interested in getting into your area of technology. Have them run all the Jira, summarization, execution of planning processes, comms & coordination. You'll still need to own hiring, still need to do a lot of people development work and still have to get involved in marketing & product strategy - but might get some leverage in internal pieces you don't like.

* Promote or hire another person who shows interest and aptitude in management, with the explicit plan for them to be your deputy and to take on some of the "tasks you don't really enjoy," especially if scoped to a specific area. Can you structure your work so someone else is responsible for 50% (or even more) of it? Can they do the RFP first-pass reviews, and even be responsible for pushing back on things in their area of responsibility? Can they manage some of your directs, and co-lead some of the above processes within their scope? There might be someone on the team who feels underutilized, wants more visibility, has strong relationships and is willing to learn. And if there's not - that's signal for you and your hiring process that maybe you've only hired folks like you; it may be time to have a broader set of folks on the team.

Re: Ask HN: Lead developer but I just don't enjoy management

#30

Post by mooreds » Mon, Jan 09, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

Oh yeah. I have done this and left because I couldn't see a way out.

I'd suggest having a hard conversation with your leadership. You have to be prepared to leave, as there may not be a place for a senior (expensive) person who isn't leading teams. But you'll never know until you ask. I'd probably say something like "I'm not sure this role is a fit for me. My ideal role would be . Do you think there's a way I can take on more of that kind of role at this company?"

It'll probably be months or years until you can transition internally, but you can start the conversation.

You might enjoy this blog post too: https://charity.wtf/2019/01/04/engineering-management-the-pe...

PS It isn't childish. I firmly believe that everyone should do a stint as a manager, if for no other reason than to have empathy for managers, but no one has an obligation to be a manager forever.