incredible as it may seem to say, data security is a secondary concern vs the very concept of these businesses, which exercise enormous and often malign influence over the lives of citizens. Take together, the are in effect a privatised 'social credit' system which can stop you from getting a home, a car, a job, any kind of insurance, effectively cutting you off from healthcare and the rest. They are instruments of oppression, their private status providing US Gov moral cover and the permission to still claim 'land of the free'
Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
21–29 of 29 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#22I understand why they exist, but they should be opt-in in my opinion.
example #1 : a teenager starting his first job should not have his data shared by default (it is useless for him and increase(I think) the risk that his identity gets stolen)
example #2 : when you go to a lender, he could say, yeah, we check with equifax, maybe you want to opt-in with them.
The fact that they are unavoidable are the problem in my opinion. It creates a kind of monopoly. If it was opt-in, maybe we would see more alternatives companies offering the same kind of service with better security and customer service.
P.S : There is an error in my file and I never bother to fix it, I never lived there, it is clearly a fraud attempt and this is their error, not mine to fix.
P.P.S : not an expert on the topic and maybe I am missing out on important details
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#23Because in lending you need to rely on a data source to provide information about repayment behaviour, sanctions, fraud flags, outstanding loan volumes, historical loan volumes, etc in a neutral, reliable, verified, and consistent manner. While in theory it's possible to calculate a credit score, the complexity of the reports these companies provide go much deeper. Further, these companies operate across jurisdiction…
Although you answered the question, and you answered it correctly by stating the obvious, it reminds me that this sort of answer is no longer appreciated by large segments of the population because it lacks "empathy".
What a strange world we live in. And it happened so quickly.
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#24I understand why they exist, but they should be opt-in in my opinion. example #1 : a teenager starting his first job should not have his data shared by default (it is useless for him and increase(I think) the risk that his identity gets stolen) example #2 : when you go to a lender, he could say, yeah, we check with equifax, maybe you want to opt-in with them. The fact that they are unavoidable are the problem in my o…
Technically they are opt in. If you pay for everything in cash you won't have much data for them to use against you.
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#25Because in lending you need to rely on a data source to provide information about repayment behaviour, sanctions, fraud flags, outstanding loan volumes, historical loan volumes, etc in a neutral, reliable, verified, and consistent manner. While in theory it's possible to calculate a credit score, the complexity of the reports these companies provide go much deeper. Further, these companies operate across jurisdiction…
Pretty sure credit and loans existed before credit scores. In the 30s and 40s for example. The relationship was built on 1:1 trust, not all historical things you've done.
Imagine a dating network where you could see how every ex rated someone, nobody would sign on for that, yet this is exactly what a credit reporting agency is.
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#26while not ideal, at least they operate credit score databases instead of debtors prisons.
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#27Because in lending you need to rely on a data source to provide information about repayment behaviour, sanctions, fraud flags, outstanding loan volumes, historical loan volumes, etc in a neutral, reliable, verified, and consistent manner. While in theory it's possible to calculate a credit score, the complexity of the reports these companies provide go much deeper. Further, these companies operate across jurisdiction…
Although you answered the question, and you answered it correctly by stating the obvious, it reminds me that this sort of answer is no longer appreciated by large segments of the population because it lacks "empathy". What a strange world we live in. And it happened so quickly.
My answer doesn't lack empathy but is based on years of work experience.
If you are lending money to people you don't want empathy or subjectivity you want to make sure that the person can repay the money.
And that is not only to protect the lender but also to protect the borrower[1]
[1] https://asic.gov.au/about-asic/news-centre/find-a-media-rele...
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#28Because in lending you need to rely on a data source to provide information about repayment behaviour, sanctions, fraud flags, outstanding loan volumes, historical loan volumes, etc in a neutral, reliable, verified, and consistent manner. While in theory it's possible to calculate a credit score, the complexity of the reports these companies provide go much deeper. Further, these companies operate across jurisdiction…
Pretty sure credit and loans existed before credit scores. In the 30s and 40s for example. The relationship was built on 1:1 trust, not all historical things you've done. Imagine a dating network where you could see how every ex rated someone, nobody would sign on for that, yet this is exactly what a credit reporting agency is.
No it isn't. Lending is next to Prostitution one of the industries that exists for the longest time in some cases 5000 BC [1]
Trust relationships are mostly subjective and do not scale well to individuals that do not have established networks. You can compare that to modern Venture Capital businesses where it is incredibly hard to even get a pitch if you are not well connected.
You might have heard the story of Adam Neumann raising 300M for his new PropTech business. Why would he get this amount of money? Because (1) he has shown that he can build businesses that generate revenue in the Billions (2) he is connected to the right people worldwide allowing him to raise funds and attract talent with ease. That places him in the 0.0001% of entrepreneurs.
And that is what modern credit bureaus deliver as a SaaS product. An easy way to understand if people can repay a loan (execute), run a profitable business, and are trustworthy.
Re: Ask HN: Why do we allow Equifax, Transunion, and Experian to exist?
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Although you answered the question, and you answered it correctly by stating the obvious, it reminds me that this sort of answer is no longer appreciated by large segments of the population because it lacks "empathy". What a strange world we live in. And it happened so quickly.
My answer doesn't lack empathy but is based on years of work experience. If you are lending money to people you don't want empathy or subjectivity you want to make sure that the person can repay the money. And that is not only to protect the lender but also to protect the borrower[1] [1] https://asic.gov.au/about-asic/news-centre/find-a-media-rele...
I was agreeing with you, but I was probably being too sarcastic.