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Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

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Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#21

If I was starting a startup today. I'd probably just block Europe and focus on other markets initially. Loop back on Europe once you have product market fit and the resources to deal with GDPR.

Nice move. You'll save time/money for the future; that's for sure.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#22
Court rulings in the EU have found that US law is not compatible with GDPR: US lets law enforcement have unfettered access to the data of EU residents, with no restrictions or redress mechanisms that satisfy the EU court.

This means that sending data from the EU to a US company is almost always a GDPR violation. There are a few nuances to this which are very important.

- The US CLOUD Act gives US law enforcement access to data stored in other jurisdictions. This means that locating the servers in the EU is not sufficient. Nor is operating via an EU subsidiaries.

- IP address counts as personal data, as does pseudonymized identifiers.

The two of these combined mean that GDPR forbids you from having your users connect to Google servers. This is why Google Fonts is straight forbidden, and why most installations of Google Analytics are forbidden. Also the use of basically anything from Google, Azure, AWS, Oracle, Facebook, Akamai, etc except when routed through an EU proxy which obscures the user's original IP address.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#23
I looked into this issue over the last weeks and made a list of other solo founders and how they handle it.

You can find many, many of them when you search Twitter for "buildinpublic".

The sad truth is that most successful solo founders these days:

1) Make it very hard to figure out where the service they provide is located.

2) When you find out, it is usually registered in a country outside of the EU. Crunchbase often helps to find the location.

Apart from the USA, Singapore and Colombia seem to be popular choices among solo founders who know what they do:

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/nomad-list

https://openstartup.tm/remote%20ok

What the discussion about GDPR usually misses is that GDPR does not only apply to Google Analytics and Google Fonts.

A web business needs a hosting solution, a CDN, a payment processor, an email solution, an A/B testing solution, etc etc etc.

If you try to handle all that inside of the EU, you are cut off from all the good tools that startups usually use.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#24

Someone should build GDPR-compliance-as-a-service.

We are building one such service and I agree (to name a few services doing GDPRaaS : soveren.io, ethyca.com, securiti.ai, datagrail.com, alias.dev) .this is so much needed as there is almost no legally valid answer on the whole comment section! I started to write an article on all the points above… should get back in 2 hours and post it here

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#25
post #3
post #2

How about "Don't use Google Analytics and Google Fonts"? Like, at all ? There are self-hosted alternatives. Plausible Analytics is good. Find web fonts that you can host yourself. Not only you will reduce your risk exposure, you'll see that it is not that difficult to get rid of Google. Your users, European or not, will thank you later.

Although you're right, there are alternatives to Google Analytics, you really should work on your messaging. Snark isn't necessary when someone is (seemingly) genuinely asking for help. In any case, for the OP I would also recommend to use an alternative. I don't know about Plausible Analytics but I have heard good things about Simple Analytics [1]. I'm not sure about Google Fonts. In terms of GDPR compliance, just k…

There was no snark. It was just the shortest way that I could find to convey the message that "the best way to comply with laws that govern data collection and data processing is by not collecting data and not use third-party services that collect user data in the first place.

It's the same thing with the cookie-banner law, by the way. I am running a service in Europe and I can proudly say that I have no cookie banner on my site. You know why? Because I don't have any tracking cookies on my site in the first place.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#26
post #22

Court rulings in the EU have found that US law is not compatible with GDPR: US lets law enforcement have unfettered access to the data of EU residents, with no restrictions or redress mechanisms that satisfy the EU court. This means that sending data from the EU to a US company is almost always a GDPR violation. There are a few nuances to this which are very important. - The US CLOUD Act gives US law enforcement acce…

This is my understanding too. Meaning, there's a huge backlog of compliance issues at so, so many companies.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a difference with fonts.bunny.net and Google Fonts? From the perspective of GDPR, they still both receive your IPA and browser info, which was what made it illegal to use G fonts. You can download fonts from both of them and host them on your own server to avoid processing that information. I'm all for privacy and such (I don't use Google Fonts or tracking ads/analytics), but I don't really see a differen…

> According to G Fonts privacy policy, they don't store any PII. Do they log IP addresses? That would be enough as those count as PII. Maybe bunny.net has logs disabled and that's what makes them stand out. But especially with fonts it's just so easy to self-host them that it's kind of a no-brainer. > almost any 3rd party requests for assets should be blocked That could be a very good practice/state of mind for devel…

The GDPR also has the concept of data minimization, which I believe would apply in the case where you're unnecessarily sharing IP addresses with a third-party (regardless of whether they ultimately log them) for something that can trivially be done in-house.

There's zero benefit to using a CDN for fonts - browsers have long ago started partitioning caches per origin anyway, so you don't even get a performance benefit. Just put the fonts where you put the rest of your static files and you're good to go.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#28

As a small, bootstrapped one person startup, the part of GDPR that seems impossible for me to comply with (I am not lawyer nor am I European, so maybe I am wrong, but everything I have read about it indicates I am right) is the appointment of a Data Protection Officer. I do the duties of the DPO myself, but from what I have read, this is not in compliance with GDPR, which requires the DPO to be "independent". See htt…

No, that's not true at all.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#29
post #6

Got a relevant question myself: What bothers me the most for solo founders with GDPR is that you can't analyse individual user journeys without some kind of consent. I don't care who you are, but I care how you use my product so I can improve it. Aggregated / backend analytics will give me only the most basic insights. Am I right in that? Is it possible to work around that? I don't track to sell or analyse personal d…

IANAL, but I think you can work around this by running Matomo locally and activate the options to anonymize/scramble IPs directly at the beginning. If you don't use IP addresses or can't come back from a user profile to an IP address, you should be fine with tracking the user journey. But be careful with tracking actions like "placed an order" and linking to that order then. That link would create an option to identi…

Anonymizing IP addresses wouldn't do anything it you still collect other data that is unique enough, such as a browser user agent or session ID. The whole thing you're trying to do requires a persistent identifier (to track the user across their browsing session) and since analytics is not functionally-necessary, it will require consent.

The only analytics you can do without consent is effectively a stateless hit counter that increases on every operation. For a lot of features, it's more than enough and saves you from all these headaches.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#30
post #2

How about "Don't use Google Analytics and Google Fonts"? Like, at all ? There are self-hosted alternatives. Plausible Analytics is good. Find web fonts that you can host yourself. Not only you will reduce your risk exposure, you'll see that it is not that difficult to get rid of Google. Your users, European or not, will thank you later.

I agree. I did this for my Website Builder SaaS. I had this during development: ah yeah, almost forgot, I need analytics or stats of some sort, but I don't want Google. Eventually I ended up writing my own statistics code which works pretty good and doesn't track visitors, but I also heard good stuff about Simple Analytics if you need a plug-n-play solution for your website quickly.
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