Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#21

Post by mixedCase » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

mikewarot wrote: post #16

mixedCase wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... IPFS, Torrents, eDonkey/Kad, Tor, I2P, what is missing between those?

Local storage of everything. A language for the markup of hypertext documents (no, HTML doesn't do that). A strategy for recording an annotative trail.

All of those allow local storage. They in fact assume it.

> A language for the markup of hypertext documents (no, HTML doesn't do that)

What is missing? Specially when accounting for anchor links being able to target protocols other than HTTPs.

> A strategy for recording an annotative trail

Could you go into descriptive detail of what you actually mean here?

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#22

Post by throwayyy479087 » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #7

It’s already happened to Facebook. Zuckerberg would love to trade his company for TikTok and their version of the ‘metaverse’ is cruelly mocked in all corners. Amazon is slipping. In the last two years they quit delivering Prime packages in two days in much of the US. Most other retailers have sped up their deliveries in this time frame. Customers are starting to notice. Everything AMZN has pioneered is now widesprea…

No you can't just trust the market to regulate - that's capitalist propaganda.

The government must intervene.

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#23

Post by mixedCase » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #20

mixedCase wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... IPFS, Torrents, eDonkey/Kad, Tor, I2P, what is missing between those?

The ability to trace back is way too easy to achieve for bullies (publisher mafia, copyright holders, state agencies with geopolitical interests etc). Stuff like NNCP might help. The complete lack of interest in developing a truly anonymous internet is worrying. Another thing that is sorely missing is the ease of use of the web-of-trust networks. Me and a friend on the other side of the globe meet up physically, exch…

I named both Tor and I2P.

As for your web-of-trust thing, what's missing from a VPN solution?

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#24

Post by pdimitar » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

mixedCase wrote: post #23

pdimitar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to trace back is way too easy to achieve for bullies (publisher mafia, copyright holders, state agencies with geopolitical interests etc). Stuff like NNCP might help. The complete lack of interest in developing a truly anonymous internet is worrying. Another thing that is sorely missing is the ease of use of the web-of-trust networks. Me and a friend on the other side of the globe meet up physically, exch…

I named both Tor and I2P. As for your web-of-trust thing, what's missing from a VPN solution?

Full anonymity from everyone along the way.

I got nothing to hide yet I dislike the idea of my traffic being analyzed.

VPN is just from point A (me) to point B (VPN node) to point C (actual destination). A lot of ISPs recognize and profile VPN traffic, even if they can't decipher it. So hardly an actual improvement.

Tor + torrent + deliberate traffic pattern/origin obfuscation is likely where it's at but as I said, nobody made a true full solution.

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#25

Post by Gaessaki » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 5:03 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #18

I would say not likely. As industries mature, incumbents acquire enough of an advantage that they don't get outcompeted, you just want until the market for their product disappears. It's like asking if Coca-Cola, Nabisco, or Unilever are going to get "taken down a notch". No, not really. Also "take down a notch" is some pretty judgmental phrasing, as if it implies they're bigger than they deserve to be, as if they're…

Didn't mean to imply that they were necessarily doing anything wrong or right (and I tried to clarify that with the last sentence of my post).

In my book, "taking down a notch" means to humble someone. Companies like Apple and Google can make uniliteral decisions that move markets (for better or for worse), in a way that other companies can't. The crux of the question is whether they'll be able to hold onto this liberty.

On the same vein, I think it's totally fair to ask whether a non-tech company like Nestlé could be taken down a notch.

All that being said, I buy your point. As long as their core offerings remain undisrupted/maintained, it's hard to envision things being different.

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#26

Post by mikewarot » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

mixedCase wrote: post #21

mikewarot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local storage of everything. A language for the markup of hypertext documents (no, HTML doesn't do that). A strategy for recording an annotative trail.

All of those allow local storage. They in fact assume it. > A language for the markup of hypertext documents (no, HTML doesn't do that) What is missing? Specially when accounting for anchor links being able to target protocols other than HTTPs. > A strategy for recording an annotative trail Could you go into descriptive detail of what you actually mean here?

If I have a document, you can't annotate it without embedding new code in the document... you can't add a layer of markup on top of, and separate from, it.

The decision to embed markup in documents was horrible in its effects. It gives copyright holders extortive power over criticism, for example. You have to copy a document to mark it up, which didn't need to be the case.

As for annotative trail... imagine being able to lay out a set of pages of paper on a larger white sheet... and then make notes between two things showing how they are logically associated, in context. HTML links are blind, unidirectional, fragile, and can't go to an arbitrary position in a document.

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#27

Post by jmoak3 » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

mtberatwork wrote: post #12

GianFabien wrote: post #5

I'm not an economist, just some random techie. I don't think you can lump all of GAMA together. I think that Meta and Twitter which rely almost entirely on advertising revenue are the most vulnerable. Google with some products and Apple with several products should be less vulnerable. Amazon covers several niches: distributor, advertiser, web services, so they are probably facing numerous challenges in the future. If…

What headwinds? The Western world is a consumption driven society (with the US being an extreme version I would say), so I don't think advertising/PR spending will be reduced, just transferred from one focus to another. The businesses that are driven by ad revenues will pivot to wherever the ad dollars go.

>so I don't think advertising/PR spending will be reduced

I disagree, if consumer spending is reduced due to less equity valuations or less overall liquidity, then the ad spend will follow.

A recession could easily bring this about.

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#28

Post by rowanG077 » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

throwayyy479087 wrote: post #22

PaulHoule wrote: post #7

It’s already happened to Facebook. Zuckerberg would love to trade his company for TikTok and their version of the ‘metaverse’ is cruelly mocked in all corners. Amazon is slipping. In the last two years they quit delivering Prime packages in two days in much of the US. Most other retailers have sped up their deliveries in this time frame. Customers are starting to notice. Everything AMZN has pioneered is now widesprea…

No you can't just trust the market to regulate - that's capitalist propaganda. The government must intervene.

I'm not sure what your point is. Just because these companies aren't eternal doesn't mean we shouldn't regulate them. I'd wager most people would be fantastically happy if browser tracking and personalized ads/content were illegal.

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#29

Post by pipeline_peak » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #7

It’s already happened to Facebook. Zuckerberg would love to trade his company for TikTok and their version of the ‘metaverse’ is cruelly mocked in all corners. Amazon is slipping. In the last two years they quit delivering Prime packages in two days in much of the US. Most other retailers have sped up their deliveries in this time frame. Customers are starting to notice. Everything AMZN has pioneered is now widesprea…

Amazon is not slipping, they are by far the largest online delivery service and marketplace. Not to mention ever growing brand names and overall dominance. Azure has always been a peer.

Edit: Not sure why I'm getting downvoted, I wish Amazon would break apart, but that's far from the case.

Re: Ask HN: When will big tech be taken down a notch?

#30

Post by vmoore » Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 5:37 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #7

It’s already happened to Facebook. Zuckerberg would love to trade his company for TikTok and their version of the ‘metaverse’ is cruelly mocked in all corners. Amazon is slipping. In the last two years they quit delivering Prime packages in two days in much of the US. Most other retailers have sped up their deliveries in this time frame. Customers are starting to notice. Everything AMZN has pioneered is now widesprea…

> the ‘metaverse’ is cruelly mocked in all corners

The Metaverse thing is just a passion project. It's what you invent when the initial vision of your main gig (Facebook) starts going down the doldrums. Facebook is basically in maintenance mode now.