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Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

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21–30 of 112 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#21
post #3

Practically, it will make little or no difference to you. Currently, central banks manage money supply by managing currency transfers to commercial banks and via managing the amount of cash in circulation. The commercial bank transfers are (almost) all digital. Cash, obviously, isn't. There is reasonable reason to assume that cash will become less and less prevalent as digital payment flows become more ingrained. So…

> Practically, it will make little or no difference to you. So when the fed reserve decides inflation is too high because they printed too much money and kept interest rates low- instead of trying to "soften the labor market"/drive unemployment up and more people into poverty - with a digital currency, they can simply zap your money away. No need for financial "austerity" for the poor's to endure. What could go wrong…

> "wait til you have an ESG score for your personal life"

How exactly do you suggest the 'G' part would work? It's short for "corporate governance" you know.

I get the feeling you're getting these bizarre talking points from some right-wing echo chamber where they're coming up with a new scary acronym panic on a regular basis. "Watch out, the ESG will CRT you into the NWO!"

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#24
Related:

https://emmer.house.gov/2022/1/emmer-introduces-legislation-...

“Not only would this CBDC model centralize Americans’ financial information, leaving it vulnerable to attack, but it could also be used as a surveillance tool that Americans should never tolerate from their own government.”

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#25
For me that would be an effective way to target government money to people that really need it. Another comment pointed the expiring money, specialized money, etc as a distopia future but this is only if we let it become that IMHO.

There is also a utopia side to that coin where money like UBI can be easily distributed to all but can only be used to buy necessities like food, shelters, etc but cannot be used to buy stocks and prop up a bubble in the stock market like a lot of the stimulus checks were during the pandemic. One could also easily target programmable money toward low income people without needing to wait a tax statement or having to double check at the end of the year.

Programmable money is a really powerful concept and I do think it is inevitable that we will come to it at some point since it lowers of the cost of implenting economic policies and increases the speed at which they are deployed. But we do need to make sure enough laws are on the book to prevent authoritarian use. In a stable and alive democracy that should not be too much of an issue, but elsewhere...

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#26
post #25

For me that would be an effective way to target government money to people that really need it. Another comment pointed the expiring money, specialized money, etc as a distopia future but this is only if we let it become that IMHO. There is also a utopia side to that coin where money like UBI can be easily distributed to all but can only be used to buy necessities like food, shelters, etc but cannot be used to buy st…

India fixed this problem with “direct benefit transfer” straight to bank accounts. And this was before the current UPI system had really taken off.

Really, if a country of 1.4 billion people where beneficiaries can number more than the populations of most countries, I don’t see why you would need CBDCs at all.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#27
We are about to enter a new age of social welfare as Gen X and Millenials enter old age. We don’t expect anyone to start dying quickly. Boomers are here too. Start doling out the coupons digitally to subsidize life. Instead of printing money constantly, devalue the coupons (social security) and set rates for what life actually cost (e.g get everyone used to accepting 1 unit for food, 1 unit being whatever the government decides). Otherwise we have to keep manipulating a real world global economy with debt printing. If we do it, China does it, and the global economy gets whacky. It’s much better if China and America and India can just get their people to start looking at 1 dollar/euro of digitally money as worth 1 piece of … food.

But I hear you saying, “no, the cake is definitely $10”. Uh, no? No it’s not.

And that’s how we can pay for everyone, by convincing everyone to stop charging each other for everything. Take care of your elders for free Westerners, like every other country.

This is roughly China’s plan. They want to directly send money to people that need it. It stops graft and the black market, but the inevitable end game is that it’s state welfare, which is the easiest currency to manipulate (vs debt markets). You all wanted capitalism to die, it will, and it’s because no one is going to die. Welfare is the dystopia no one ever told you about, not the hedonistic capitalism wolf we’ve all been crying about.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#28
post #19

People don't need it, but governments want it very badly. It would provide governments with greater visibility into and control over the money supply and flows. This would be both at the macro (arguably good) and micro (arguably bad) levels. Just as here on HN we read from time to time about people being locked out of various online services (i.e. Google, Facebook etc.) for doing something a company doesn't like, a C…

In short, permissioned digital currency is all the bad parts of crypto and none of the good parts, while simultaneously getting rid of all the good parts of cash. There's almost no benefit to the user that something else doesn't do better.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#29
post #25

For me that would be an effective way to target government money to people that really need it. Another comment pointed the expiring money, specialized money, etc as a distopia future but this is only if we let it become that IMHO. There is also a utopia side to that coin where money like UBI can be easily distributed to all but can only be used to buy necessities like food, shelters, etc but cannot be used to buy st…

programmable money is a good thing. Permissioned programmable money is a bad thing.

Re: Ask HN: Why do we need central bank digital currency (CBDC)?

#30

Explain to me like I am 5 Out of sight, out of mind. You don't see it but private transaction processors (Visa and Mastercard) consume up to 3% of the transaction amount. Over the course of a year, this amounts to $50 billion removed from the economy. The merchant pays this --- and passes the cost along to you in terms of higher prices. The money transfer system that deposits your check is old and slow and involves h…

> Out of sight, out of mind. You don't see it but Visa and Mastercard consume up to 3% of the transaction amount. Over the course of a year, this amounts to $50 billion removed from the economy. The merchant pays this --- and passes the cost along to you in terms of higher prices.

Visa and MC get only a fraction of the PSP fees. You can regulate this space and bring the fees down (like the EU did). But fundamentally, an electronic payment system isn't as simple as moving money from one bank account to another in an immutable way: that is extremely cheap already and further gains from using CDBCs would be marginal at best.

> The money transfer system that deposits your check is old and slow and involves human labor. Unless you pay additional fees (banks love fees), it takes at least 24 hours for the deposit to be made and the system only operates during "banker hours" --- 8-5 on weekdays; no weekends, holidays or nights.

> A CDBC will be fully electronic/automated with instant results and operate 24/7/365 at insignificant cost. Basically, it will speed up and put billions of dollars back into the economy.

No need for a CBDC to fix that. You just need to bring your banking infrastructure to the 21st century.

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