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Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

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Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#21

Post by NO-AI »

vinaypai wrote: post #18
NO-AI wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, if we as a society refuse to use self-driving cars, we can make the industry unprofitable. Society says, "No, this is not the kind of product we want" and capitalism works to starve the harmful industry.

You're pretending that everyone, or even a large subset of people agree with your central premise. The replies on this thread ought to disabuse you of that notion. I, for one, can't wait for self-driving cars to replace the average moron driving multi-ton vehicles around.

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#22

Post by shreyshnaccount »

NO-AI wrote: post #9
vinaypai wrote: post #6

No. People have been bellyaching about technology replacing humans literally through all of history. Computers, automation, industrial revolution, what have you. Hunter gatherers were probably complaining about how agriculture was going to make people obsolete too. You can certainly reject whatever you want but don't fool yourself into thinking you're accomplishing anything.

For example, if we as a society refuse to use self-driving cars, we can make the industry unprofitable. Society says, "No, this is not the kind of product we want" and capitalism works to starve the harmful industry.

Except we as a society can't do crap. If we could, we mightve fixed global warming and emissions by your logic.

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#23

Post by mintyDijon »

Many people are finding their way out of big cities and into a less technologically enhanced life. Good ol' rural country living.

Is it possible for urban society to shift away from AI? No I don't think so. Is it possible for a NEW society to emerge that shifts away from AI? Yes, and that new society is already alive and growing.

Perhaps one day these two opposing societies will have to fight for supremacy, which sounds like an interesting scenario. Someone should write a book about that.

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#24

Post by tqi »

NO-AI wrote: post #11
qgin wrote: post #8

> As a society we can reject this technology. I don't see a lot of precedent for this. I actually can't think of one example where society has rejected a useful technology. I believe that affluent people will pay more for artisinal/organic/human-created things. But the majority of the world without disposable income will choose cheaper over human. Even if human-made is better. Especially if AI-made is better. It's tr…

I work with these systems all day, every day, and these new systems are qualitatively different. These new transformer systems have crossed a line and its easy to see how they will threaten human dignity. This technology crosses a line. It's like atomic weapons. This is the commoditization of the human mind.

1. How did rejecting atomic weapons go?

2. In what way does it "threaten human dignity" that is different from the technologies that came before it? Automation took away the livelihoods of people in industries like manufacturing decades ago. Feels like what is truly "different" this time around is just that you feel your job is threatened, so now it's a problem for all of society.

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#25

Post by earthboundkid »

An AI already controls the world. It's just a dumbass paperclip maximizer called "capitalism" whose job is to make the line go up on a graph. It's a kind of cute design where instead of using silicon chips, they get organic beings to do minor calculations for them, and then it's the distribute computing problem from hell to get all the calculations combined and error corrected, but it basically works well enough, and as aforementioned, it already controls the world. So basically, I don't see much room for a second AI to run the world unless it can find a way to coopt the operations of the first.

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#26

Post by schnitty »

natch wrote: post #12

No, the unstoppable force here is the imperative that every organization must keep up with its peers to survive. Just to simplify by keeping it in the realm of business, if only one company adopts an advantageous technology, all other companies are forced to find a way to keep up, get ahead, or leave the field. The ratchet effect is inexorable. It can only be tweaked and maybe guided, not stopped.

"Meditations on Moloch"

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#27

Post by dr_kiszonka »

vinaypai wrote: post #6

No. People have been bellyaching about technology replacing humans literally through all of history. Computers, automation, industrial revolution, what have you. Hunter gatherers were probably complaining about how agriculture was going to make people obsolete too. You can certainly reject whatever you want but don't fool yourself into thinking you're accomplishing anything.

We just need to start developing politicians-replacing AI to see swift legislative action to regulate any and all AI research.

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#28

Post by colechristensen »

>thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind

I'm not worried about ML "art" or literature, those are curiosities and don't actually threaten to replace anything, people who expect them to are very optimistic about the progress of ML.

I am worried about ML replacing human judgement on the road, with weaponry, content moderation, law enforcement, and using it to do things that humans wouldn't have the resources to do. (i.e. a policeman on patrol in a neighborhood is fine, a police ML surveillance camera that identifies people and records everything they do in public is not)

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#29

Post by t-3 »

NO-AI wrote: post #14
t-3 wrote: post #5

Why? AI is a tool, not even a servant, for that would imply will. We can use and direct it to whatever ends please us. The realization of AI as a general tool for the individual is approaching rapidly, and it will have radically transformative potential. Don't be afraid, push from behind so that progress won't stall in the period where it's only accessible to institutions.

Capitalism is a wonderful system. But when your mind has become a commodity your economic value will approach zero. I hope you're not expecting our capitalist society to coddle you when that day arrives. Perhaps you will do manual labor for the machines, but I doubt the value of human physical labor will last. So good luck.

AI will only sustain capitalism and it's heirarchical order if it is kept the domain of institutions. Hardware and software are both advancing quickly enough that only a mass movement against AI will lead us to that dystopia. In any case, I don't participate in the normal economy or society, and live outside of those bounds in large part, so being afraid of suxh things would be silly for me.

Re: Ask HN: Viability of an anti-AI social movement?

#30

Post by azinman2 »

vinaypai wrote: post #7
vinaypai wrote: post #6

No. People have been bellyaching about technology replacing humans literally through all of history. Computers, automation, industrial revolution, what have you. Hunter gatherers were probably complaining about how agriculture was going to make people obsolete too. You can certainly reject whatever you want but don't fool yourself into thinking you're accomplishing anything.

PS: They have also been saying “the last n-1 times we were wrong, but this time is different".

There is ample reason to believe this time is different, but almost certainly in ways that aren’t predicted right now.
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