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Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

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Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would usually need to disable DNSSEC, wait 24h, transfer, and then wait for at least 24h before enabling DNSSEC again.

Are there any case where DNSSEC can be kept enabled? I though it need to be disabled for transferring.

There is, but it requires cooperation between everyone and double signing between the old and new hosting service (for a short period of time). That rarely works out in the real world.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#22
post #18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a site reliability perspective HTTPS is still broken. Some 15yo OS can't access any site because it doesn't have the certificates or cipher suites. And as you mentioned we need to update certs, webservers and DNS all the time to keep up to date. We only put up with it because it protects users from from snoopers. But that means we live in an inadequate equilibrium. If we abolished mass surveillance rather than i…

> If we abolished mass surveillance then we wouldn't need encryption for read-only sites, we could have our cake and eat it too. Mass surveillance is not the only reason to have HTTPS everywhere. It protects not just from snoopers, but from MITM attacks.

Did you notice the "read only sites" part? MITM is hardly relevant for those.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#23
post #17

-- removed. My apologies. --

My domain and users have ended up in limbo beyond anyone's but Cloudflare's control. I cannot transfer it back to the working registrar, or I would without being "angry at some free service". Why do you think berating me with snide remarks is helpful?

When it comes to dnssec, the keys are handed down through the same layer of delegation that gives you your nameservers. This is out of Cloudflare's hands as well, you have bad data up through the registry and out to (your tld's) root nameservers. Just like changes to your NS record delegation don't take immediate effect, these keys don't take immediate effect either.

It's still pretty early days for DNSSEC, if you're going to use it it's worthwhile to know a lot about it. Just look at the several Slack outages caused by their attempts to implement it. Eventually the tooling will catch up, and registrars will all give you warnings about moving DNS and registration and the importance of syncing up your keys but we just aren't there yet.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would usually need to disable DNSSEC, wait 24h, transfer, and then wait for at least 24h before enabling DNSSEC again.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind for eventual future transfers. But shouldn't I be able to disable DNSSEC regardless, instead of the domain being stuck in limbo and hijacked by what appears to be a deadlock type of bug?

Disabling DNSSEC doesn't propagate instantly. Have you queried the CF nameservers for the domain directly? In my experience everything involving DNSSEC requires a 24h wait (unless the domain hasn't been queried from anywhere - but that's usually not the case, something might have triggered distributed DNS lookups e.g. LE doing DNS validation for cert issuance etc).

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#25
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a site reliability perspective HTTPS is still broken. Some 15yo OS can't access any site because it doesn't have the certificates or cipher suites. And as you mentioned we need to update certs, webservers and DNS all the time to keep up to date. We only put up with it because it protects users from from snoopers. But that means we live in an inadequate equilibrium. If we abolished mass surveillance rather than i…

Do you think criminals care about the law?

Criminals are much less likely to engage in MITM attacks, besides TLAs it's usually shady ISPs who want to inject some content (similar to surveillance that could be made illegal too, ISPs would in fact care). And criminals also have little incentive to attack read-only sites. Even if they did it might be more efficient to allocate resources to law enforcement rather than securing everything that could theoretically be attacked by criminals.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#26
post #22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we abolished mass surveillance then we wouldn't need encryption for read-only sites, we could have our cake and eat it too. Mass surveillance is not the only reason to have HTTPS everywhere. It protects not just from snoopers, but from MITM attacks.

Did you notice the "read only sites" part? MITM is hardly relevant for those.

You should still protect against MITM attacks even with read-only websites - not all attacks are based on stealing user input.

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#27
post #14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It like https. A lot of people in the past viewed HTTPS as a terrible idea that just broke things, and every example where someone had their website go down because of broken certificates or mixed content was proof that https as a concept was broken. Usually people brought up x.509 or revocation lists as the definitive proof that https would never be common.

From a site reliability perspective HTTPS is still broken. Some 15yo OS can't access any site because it doesn't have the certificates or cipher suites. And as you mentioned we need to update certs, webservers and DNS all the time to keep up to date. We only put up with it because it protects users from from snoopers. But that means we live in an inadequate equilibrium. If we abolished mass surveillance rather than i…

HTTPS is indeed broken when viewing it from a site reliability perspective. Anyone who has maintained more than a handful of domains simultaneously will agree (personally I’ve managed hundreds, each with their own certificate … it’s an awful experience).

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#28
post #4

> what's the fastest way to get technical assistance when on a free plan? Upgrading to a non-free plan? You don't have to upgrade to enterprise, but even their $20/mo plan comes with support. (Also, I hate to victim-blame here but using DNSSEC was a bad idea in the first place)

Why was enabling DNSSEC a bad idea? Clearly the origin registrar isn't handling DNSSEC requests properly, but the OP should still be able to revert to non-DNSSEC without issues.

This post makes a better argument than I could write. And nothing much has changed in the seven years since. https://sockpuppet.org/blog/2015/01/15/against-dnssec/

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you notice the "read only sites" part? MITM is hardly relevant for those.

You should still protect against MITM attacks even with read-only websites - not all attacks are based on stealing user input.

What's the threat model here?

Re: Ask HN: Cloudflare broke my domain's DNSSEC making it unreachable since 4 days

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would usually need to disable DNSSEC, wait 24h, transfer, and then wait for at least 24h before enabling DNSSEC again.

Are there any case where DNSSEC can be kept enabled? I though it need to be disabled for transferring.

It shouldn't be a problem, at least i never had one, if you don't change the authoritative DNS servers.
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