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Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

#21

Post by cercatrova »

webmaven wrote: post #5
hunkins wrote: post #2

NextJS is my recommendation. The React ecosystem is incredible, and NextJS brings it to the next level. Also the documentation is fantastic, you should be up and running in 5 minutes. Pair it with a good IDE (i.e. WebStorm) and the websites write themselves.

React fails the main requirements: “Server rendered web pages, no fancy client side js, just good old websites.”

I guess you've never used NextJS because it basically uses JS as a server side templating language, and since pages are by default server side rendered, there's no client side JS (unless you want to add it).

You can go to a server side NextJS rendered page that worked even when JS is disabled, that uses only HTML and CSS and no JS whatsoever.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

#22

Post by cercatrova »

justbaker wrote: post #16
Sateeshm wrote: post #15

Svelte/Sveltekit.

No. How is that anything more than a front end framework?

It's as if people don't even read what a technology is about before bashing it. SvelteKit, like NextJS, is a server side rendered framework that just so happens to use JS as the templating language but in the end serves raw HTML to the client without any client side JS (unless you want it).

Re: Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

#25

Post by DimmieMan »

giaour wrote: post #17

ASP.NET Core is very straightforward and easy to work in. It's typically more performant than interpreted language frameworks, but it can be more verbose.

ASP.Net core is powerful but even with it being my day job I still wouldn’t recommend it for this niche.

* It’s damn complicated with a real learning curve to get your head around dependency injection, the vast standard library, heavy abstraction and Microsoft terminology. Day 1 basics can be easy but there’s a steep intermediate learning curve.

* ASP.Net has some nice plug and play stuff for generating Open API docs or logging for example but take a look at Laravel mentioned above and see how focused it is on making it easy to add features that the customer cares about.

* Documentation is expansive but not great, heavily focused on brand new user tutorials but terrible for quickly answering how do I do X? They struggle to stay up to date and i recall spending a good hour going down a rabbit hole because none of the tutorials were using the up do date magic spell to enable something.

* For pretty much everything you can think of there’s 3 ways to do it, good luck figuring out which one is the ‘correct’ way.

This may seem like a rant, I think ASP.Net Is good for a larger, more long term project where these annoyances are outweighed by performance and maintainability but I recently did a quick project in NextJS and the difference was night and day, despite it being my first ‘real’ project with the framework.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

#26

Post by DimmieMan »

hunkins wrote: post #2

NextJS is my recommendation. The React ecosystem is incredible, and NextJS brings it to the next level. Also the documentation is fantastic, you should be up and running in 5 minutes. Pair it with a good IDE (i.e. WebStorm) and the websites write themselves.

People are getting caught up on ‘no fancy client side JS’ rather than ‘getting stuff done’.

Next will let you use SSR to avoid all those OAuth & async loading headaches but also leverage more complicated components and when you do, handles all the bundling and tree shaking for you.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

#27

Post by yogini »

hunkins wrote: post #2

NextJS is my recommendation. The React ecosystem is incredible, and NextJS brings it to the next level. Also the documentation is fantastic, you should be up and running in 5 minutes. Pair it with a good IDE (i.e. WebStorm) and the websites write themselves.

Recently moved my app from ReactJS to NextJS to support SSR. The community support and the amount of resources it has is incredible.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

#28

Post by BrianDGLS92 »

DimmieMan wrote: post #25
giaour wrote: post #17

ASP.NET Core is very straightforward and easy to work in. It's typically more performant than interpreted language frameworks, but it can be more verbose.

ASP.Net core is powerful but even with it being my day job I still wouldn’t recommend it for this niche. * It’s damn complicated with a real learning curve to get your head around dependency injection, the vast standard library, heavy abstraction and Microsoft terminology. Day 1 basics can be easy but there’s a steep intermediate learning curve. * ASP.Net has some nice plug and play stuff for generating Open API docs…

Good write up. It’s important to hear from someone that works with the tech day to day.

Re: Ask HN: What is the best language/framework for getting things done on the web?

#30

Post by webmaven »

cercatrova wrote: post #21
webmaven wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React fails the main requirements: “Server rendered web pages, no fancy client side js, just good old websites.”

I guess you've never used NextJS because it basically uses JS as a server side templating language, and since pages are by default server side rendered, there's no client side JS (unless you want to add it). You can go to a server side NextJS rendered page that worked even when JS is disabled, that uses only HTML and CSS and no JS whatsoever.

You're right. As my other comment makes explicit, my wheelhouse is mostly Python. The last time I really dug into JS frameworks was about a decade ago, and was largely jQuery, D3, and friends.

Thanks for bringing to my attention something I didn't know!

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