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Ask HN: Why must there be war?

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Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#21

Post by uberman »

aristofun wrote: post #15
uberman wrote: post #3

Because there are scarce resources

This is the slogan that make people scared and ready to go to war. Please stop spreading this bullshit. Otherwise specify which exact resources do you mean and what is the proof of it’s scarcity? Even the oil is being constantly produced by the earth. Even if at incomparably slower pace than consumed, but who says people will need it at all in 50 years? But the myth about scarcity of oil right now can be sold to naiv…

I did not mention oil at all, but in fact it was motivation for parts of WW2 as well as the first gulf war.

If there is not infinite abundance of a thing, it will potentially be coveted and contention for it will be a motivation to fight for it.

Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#22

Post by vanusa »

inphovore wrote: post #19
vanusa wrote: post #6

There's so many of us

This was ultimately the reason given for the ancient Trojan war. That Zeus was upset that there were so many people in the world. That is in fact the true meaning of Odysseus’ name. the “child of anger”, given by his uncle for this very reason “too many people in the world!”

And so it goes through the ages. I dropped it in there because it's the famous refrain from the 1982 Fear hit Let's Have a War:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUxkFCBPgx4

Which seems to find new relevance in the current moment.

Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#23

Post by aristofun »

uberman wrote: post #21
aristofun wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the slogan that make people scared and ready to go to war. Please stop spreading this bullshit. Otherwise specify which exact resources do you mean and what is the proof of it’s scarcity? Even the oil is being constantly produced by the earth. Even if at incomparably slower pace than consumed, but who says people will need it at all in 50 years? But the myth about scarcity of oil right now can be sold to naiv…

I did not mention oil at all, but in fact it was motivation for parts of WW2 as well as the first gulf war. If there is not infinite abundance of a thing, it will potentially be coveted and contention for it will be a motivation to fight for it.

The thing is that people create and develop resources when working together, rather than just passively consuming them from nature.

But this is something you can’t use to justify a war, hence you’ll always see this silly argument in any war out there.

Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#24

Post by aristofun »

torstenvl wrote: post #20
aristofun wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who is there to decide which forces are dark ones?

When foreign armies hire mercenary groups to invade your homes so that they can maintain plausible deniability for what they know is an illegal and immoral act of war, I don't think there's any debate among non-psychopathic people.

This simplistic black/white view is a very dangerous position, perpetuating the “war is ok” mentality.

Read some Taleb’s books or watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) to understand my point.

Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#25

Post by torstenvl »

aristofun wrote: post #24
torstenvl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When foreign armies hire mercenary groups to invade your homes so that they can maintain plausible deniability for what they know is an illegal and immoral act of war, I don't think there's any debate among non-psychopathic people.

This simplistic black/white view is a very dangerous position, perpetuating the “war is ok” mentality. Read some Taleb’s books or watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) to understand my point.

No. What is dangerous is refusing to recognize that bad people exist and do bad things. What is dangerous is calling into question people's right to defend themselves.

Nobody can stop you from believing that, e.g., Ukraine should just capitulate to Russia and give up its freedom. But don't pretend for a second that such a belief holds the moral high ground.

Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#26

Post by aristofun »

torstenvl wrote: post #25
aristofun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This simplistic black/white view is a very dangerous position, perpetuating the “war is ok” mentality. Read some Taleb’s books or watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Lake_(film) to understand my point.

No. What is dangerous is refusing to recognize that bad people exist and do bad things. What is dangerous is calling into question people's right to defend themselves. Nobody can stop you from believing that, e.g., Ukraine should just capitulate to Russia and give up its freedom. But don't pretend for a second that such a belief holds the moral high ground.

Just watch the movie first. This simplistic naive view of the world is exactly what helps bad people thrive.

Im not defending anyone by this position, nor Im okay with any military invasion

im just pointing out how easy it is to manipulate people who buy this ignorant binary scale. In both ways

Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#27

Post by torstenvl »

aristofun wrote: post #26
torstenvl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. What is dangerous is refusing to recognize that bad people exist and do bad things. What is dangerous is calling into question people's right to defend themselves. Nobody can stop you from believing that, e.g., Ukraine should just capitulate to Russia and give up its freedom. But don't pretend for a second that such a belief holds the moral high ground.

Just watch the movie first. This simplistic naive view of the world is exactly what helps bad people thrive. Im not defending anyone by this position, nor Im okay with any military invasion im just pointing out how easy it is to manipulate people who buy this ignorant binary scale. In both ways

Supporting a nation's right to self-defense is neither simplistic nor naive. What's more, my views are informed by years of study in international law at both the JD level and in my LLM, as well as professional experience. Lastly, your personal attacks are in violation of the site guidelines. I strongly recommend you stop engaging in Internet flame war and read scholarly literature on the topic, starting with any of the various sources of commentary on the UN Charter (particularly Article 51) before engaging further. I recommend https://amazon.com/dp/B004P1JFKG/

Re: Ask HN: Why must there be war?

#28

Post by aristofun »

torstenvl wrote: post #27
aristofun wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just watch the movie first. This simplistic naive view of the world is exactly what helps bad people thrive. Im not defending anyone by this position, nor Im okay with any military invasion im just pointing out how easy it is to manipulate people who buy this ignorant binary scale. In both ways

Supporting a nation's right to self-defense is neither simplistic nor naive. What's more, my views are informed by years of study in international law at both the JD level and in my LLM, as well as professional experience. Lastly, your personal attacks are in violation of the site guidelines. I strongly recommend you stop engaging in Internet flame war and read scholarly literature on the topic, starting with any of…

Your comment sounds very offensive to me.

And where exactly was I personally attacking you?

Not to mention that your arrogant comment is way out of the scope of the discussion (i never questioned the right of anyone to self-defense). And thus can be considered off topic and flame ;)

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