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Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#21
post #17

ML learning has rapid and explicit feedback. Fast feedback lets you iterate and build upon what you have learned. Social skill learning fewer opportunities to 'practice' and the signals are often littered with high false positives (due to social niceness) or false negatives (external factors like the person was just having a bad day), so therefore its very difficult to build an accurate mental model.

Loving how neuro-neutral this response is. Objectively pointing out the information-theoretic reasons learning one is more straightforward than the other!! Perhaps in a culture that isn't drowning in discord, irony, and falsehood OP would find reading social interactions easier and be less lost in internal spirals of "why can't I decode and replicate all these layers of bs?"

Then again i'm probably just on the spectrum ;P

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#22
> But 18 years of human interaction and I'm still missing out on social skills apparently.

Also consider who told you this.

I'm well liked but I have had my doubts because some people constantly make a big fuzz of nothing. When I look back at it after 7 years I realize I was significantly more well behaved than the person picking on me.

Furthermore, something I made note of from minor celebrity around here. He said something like: once I earned my first million people started taking me seriously. Maybe the same is true for social skills?

This would also rhyme with the old Jewish/Yiddish(I think?) saying that "With money in your pocket, you are wise and you are handsome and you sing well too."

Finally: make note of who your friends are now, who helps you or at least is a reliable friend.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#23

It's not. I think you just need to go out more. Social skills are not improved by spending all your time indoor in front of your computer playing with the latest cool new framework, or learning about ML from youtube or grinding leetcode for that next fancy job or playing videogames or watching Netflix. IMHO social skills are easy to pick up, and that's coming from an introvert, you just need to put yourself out there…

I can try to help out with my haphazard guide to social skills that I’ve picked up from my experiences. This is tailored to the biases most nerds have towards social interactions.

1. Stop trying to make sense of everything people do in social situations using logic. There is a deeper logic to most things people do however you are much better off imitating what others do at first. And then observing and taking feedback. Social situations unfold too quickly to use logic and thought. Practice the rest consciously till they become habit. Start with a few at a time.

2. Pay attention to how you dress, how you speak. Observe other popular people around you and try to imitate their mannerisms and sense of style.

3. Break the above rule sometimes so you stand out and people remember you for something. Steve Jobs understood this very well. Cultivate a sense of style and keep putting it out.

4. Whenever you are interacting with another person stop thinking about yourself too much. You should be absorbing everything you can about the other person. Their goals, their hopes, their dreams, their fears. Obviously you do it step by step and don’t escalate to these directly.

5. Invite people you want to get closer to for meals, dinners or just to hang out. Find common interests and hobbies to establish rapport. Have a social calendar going to regularly have interactions with the key people in your life.

6. Understand how status and power run most of our world. Understand the pressures that managers and people in power face so you can anticipate what they will do. You will survive even if you are not very effective if you don’t create headaches for those in charge

7. Learn to stand your ground without being confrontational and cleverly diffusing conflict using poise and language.

8. Stay calm and collected. Never be too desperate.

9. Visibility is the name of the game. Nobody can care about you if they don’t know you exist.

10. Never underestimate the power of an emotional appeal.

11. Never under estimate peoples deep felt need to feel validated by and connected to other people. The more genuine it feels the better.

12. Try not to be too in your face or public about your ambitions. Try to avoid open competition or making enemies wherever possible.

13. Everything in the world is one irrational monkey deciding to enter into an exchange with another irrational monkey.

14. The irrationality comes from the lower brain. It’s well understood that people have very poor defenses against this generally. Putting a pretty woman on a bill board is dumb but it works. I know that Axe Body spray will not result in women swarming all over me but it’s the only mens spray brand that I can even remember. The lower brain cares about tasty food, beautiful scenery, safety and warmth, status and validation, sex, power etc.

15. Meditate to get your lower brain under control. Understand how others lower brains can lead them astray and short circuit most rational calculations. Politicians understand this very well.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#26

You don't necessarily get better at by just routinely doing the . If you drive mostly the same route every day for ten years, you'll hardly become any better driver. If you keep adding similar boilerplate bulk code by routine in your work, you'll hardly become any better programmer. You don't become more socially skilled through social interaction if you just do the routine things to get by. To learn things well, you…

Totally agree on the importance of feedback - another idea (a little expensive, but I'm assuming the OP has resources) is a coach/therapist/etc. Doesn't even need to be social-skills-focused. Anyone in that work obviously has above average social skills, and they want to help you. If you make it clear that it's a priority, and ask some specific questions like literally "Could I do anything to smell better?" to "Is my haircut/resting face/T-shirt off-putting?" they will do their best to gently guide you.

Even a trainer at the gym could probably do it, which might feel more comfortable and probably easier to schedule. A little exercise never hurts, and the gym is a great way to just be around people and practice all sorts of brief interactions. You probably won't find your best friend there, but that's exactly what makes it low-stakes and a great place to start.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#27

My theory is that everyone starts off with the assumption that other people work like they do and, in the vast majority of cases, this is true so learning is easy. e.g. if you care about these annoying unwritten rules yourself, then it's easy to follow them. If you're one of the people who finds this annoying, you probably also don't care when other people break them, and then you have to learn by observation alone,…

> What I don't understand is why this seems to so often coexist with a mind that can learn machine learning off of Youtube.

I'm curious as well if there is a correlation between practicing meta-cognition and these issues. My experience being on the spectrum and having communication difficulties with neurotypical folks has had me at times trying to diagram where we are getting stuck then realizing the other person is flabbergasted by the fact that I am trying to form a map of a conversation or conflict... How naive to think that communication issues must be a me thing, or even a translation issue, when many times people aren't willing to unpack their own positions/mental models/biases

On the other hand, being able to doodle complex process diagrams, and reflect on cognitive structure and bias is arguably more useful for machine learning than navigating my own emotional world (though I do wish i were 100% bot)

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#29
Able to contribute to ML is already better than many of us, so congrats and don't downplay it.

As a general rule of thumb, I would say just be yourself, be good to others in general and there's no rush for it (some people would choose to like or not like you, and it's totally fine). It takes time (~10+ year) to be mature.

When I was your age, I have no clue too other than just finishing my first public exam. I happened to work for a community center to promote the usage of Internet as a summer job. That job transforms me to be more confident in front of people as I need to face people in different walk of lives. It's a good starting point as I can use my computer skill as a stepping stone.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#30

> But 18 years of human interaction and I'm still missing out on social skills apparently. Also consider who told you this. I'm well liked but I have had my doubts because some people constantly make a big fuzz of nothing. When I look back at it after 7 years I realize I was significantly more well behaved than the person picking on me. Furthermore, something I made note of from minor celebrity around here. He said s…

Another consideration is whether the OP should change their context, even radically. For example, I found it way easier to make friends in the suburbs until I had a kid. If I didn't plan on having a kid, I shouldn't have moved to the suburbs. I'm not sure any amount of charm would have helped my integrate into the kid-centric culture.

I'm generalizing about 'the suburbs' of course - there are many axes on which to evaluate the social scenes of many different areas, so it's just about finding the right fit. maybe move across the country to live in the same town as your best friend, and build from there.

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