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Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

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Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true, but the "rainmaker" doesn't have to be the CEO, or just one person, or even work at the company. An alternative is to find an external "rainmaker," an example that I've often seen is small consulting firms that focus on things other than development (e.g. design or organization), or focus on a different type of development (e.g. CAD/CAE), that need reliable partners to bring onto their own projects.…

external rainmakers will exfiltrate huge chunks of cashflow from the company which is almost your entire profit margin, you really want the rainmaker to be paid in equity (in this case, ownership of the quals/brand/trust which is an asset that can be sold)

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Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree. Staff aug roles for individual freelancers are always easier to find, but good luck getting a team of those unless you're a more established firm - plus, the rate and work isn't all that great. We avoid them as much as possible. Sell project work that's strategic (ie: solving a business problem and coming with a solution), as opposed to 'We need a frontend developer for 12 months'. Better rates, opportunit…

Agreed. Although I think the reason why most freelancers sell staff aug work as opposed to what you might call "strategic project work" is that it's about 100X easier (at least in my experience) to find staff aug work.

The gp already alluded to it: the big difference with strategic work is you need to have the client's trust in your ability to solve their business problem, not just in your ability to code. This is why it's so hard to find, they are buying you / your team instead of just "a developer". You need to be close enough to them that they can be candid about their challenges and understand their challenges enough to provide good advice. This mostly only can happen through very strong referrals + lots of time put in getting to know the client and problem. Which is why the approach mentioned by the GP in their other comment is really the only way.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#23

It's hard because buyers (midsize+ company executives who can spend 1M+/yr) who are good at software don't need outside help, so you're really looking for buyers who are not good at software and they hang out at Medicaid summits, not Javascript meetups. To fix this you need a "rainmaker" and that person is the CEO. Since you don't have that person yet, you need to either market yourself to try to attract that person…

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Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true, but the "rainmaker" doesn't have to be the CEO, or just one person, or even work at the company. An alternative is to find an external "rainmaker," an example that I've often seen is small consulting firms that focus on things other than development (e.g. design or organization), or focus on a different type of development (e.g. CAD/CAE), that need reliable partners to bring onto their own projects.…

external rainmakers will exfiltrate huge chunks of cashflow from the company which is almost your entire profit margin, you really want the rainmaker to be paid in equity (in this case, ownership of the quals/brand/trust which is an asset that can be sold)

These are long term problems for a development shop that is 2-3 people, getting work that allows for survival and growth is the problem now. An external partner, as long as they are facilitating the development of relationships and the contract rates are reasonable, are worth quite a lot. Pretty much every successful small consulting firm I've been a part of has leveraged at least one partnership like this, even if they don't perceive it as this kind of "rainmaker" relationship.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#25

When I used to freelance I divided my marketing activities into two categories: "hunting" and "farming". Hunting tactics include things like responding to job board ads, reaching out to people you know to see if they can help you find a gig, or going to a conference to try to find a new client. Like real hunting, hunting for clients can be fast, but it’s only successful a fraction of the time, and you don’t always ge…

I worked in a team management/IC role at an engineering services company that tried to do staff augmentation, custom software/hardware design and their own products. I found that to be the worst of all worlds since there was a constant struggle for resources between those three "worlds." You'd get a client who had a project that was big enough to need three people, but because two of your guys were on a 1-year contract at $BIGCO, you either couldn't take on the project or had to tell the client they'd need to wait a year. At the same time, you don't make that much profit on the staff aug. to be worth it (IMO). The main attraction to staff augmentation is that you have a steady stream of income for a year or two from that placement.

However, when we stuck to our core competency in wearables/wireless devices, we had lots of return business and could complete projects more efficiently.

What I learned from the experience is that providing engineering services or freelancing can be very profitable, but you really need to specialize. Specialization allows you to become expert at doing a few things, which leads to more accurate time/effort estimates while being able to charge the same price or more (can charge a premium for being fast) as it takes you less time to complete a job. Trying to be everything to everyone, OTOH, means you're constantly churning while figuring out a brand new technology.

tl/dr:

Specialize and don't charge hourly.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#26
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the problem with these marketplaces that most projects are for like $5/hour, while rates for "real professionals" are more like $100/hour and (sometimes way) up?

I am not sure if I understand your point correctly. Are you implying that clients only hire beginners on UpWork? I am hiring there and I certainly have to pay way more than $5 per hour. My experience is that the price for software development starts at about $25/hour. That is for a student with a little bit of experience and rather low morale. Devs with actual work experience start at about $50 per hour. Again, moral…

Doesn't it matter where is the developer from? There's a lot of places in the world where $50/hr is way above local market rates, but is it easy for a developer outside US or UK to make that much on Upwork?

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#27
We're a tiny boutique consultancy but we build end to end machine learning products for very large organizations. The CEO is our sales guy. We get referrals and he leverages his network to find projects. He also teaches a course in university and writes in a newspaper, and we get inbound requests.

Recently, however, we built our own machine learning platform (MLOps, for the buzzword) to be able to execute these projects and build these products faster and more systematically. We did that because they took a long time before and required certain profiles that are rare, and the way we were going about it had too many bottlenecks and risks.

We also refined the process of doing these projects, especially with scoping, understanding the jobs to be done and non-consumption, and involving the actual people we were building for, not just talking with the execs/management. We had to insist. This lead to "repeat business" and reduced the need to always be prospecting. In other words: make your clients happy and you'll work together again, and the next projects will be more important and you'll amortize the time it took to build the trust because you're practically colleagues. I.e: compounding.

You need some or all of:

- Finding new clients

- Charging more or finding clients who can pay more.

- Doing more projects with the same clients

- Improving your processes so projects take less time

- Re-selling the same product your built for a client to other clients, and amortize a codebase

- Building a product for a sector/vertical/role

- Improve your tooling

- Productize yourself so you can sell items or a bundle, as opposed or in addition to selling your time.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#28
post #20

I found my first clients in job boards. The next clients, I got by referal (friends/clients). Later, after blogging for some time, CEOs/VPs made me offers via email. But getting started and making good money only took a few months.

Which job boards and at what rate? Who was your blog aimed at?

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#29
Here's one strategy for solo freelancers. Search Google with

    site:*.com/contact.php or site:*.com/contact.asp
If you want something more local you can try:

    site:*.co.uk/contact.php intitle:Bedford
This will tend to produce old sites developed with raw PHP or classic ASP and which aren't responsive. Even so, a direct email offering to fix/upgrade won't usually get a reply but an initial customer enquiry has a much better chance after which you can segway into offering services.

Re: Ask HN: Where would you start looking for development clients?

#30
post #26
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if I understand your point correctly. Are you implying that clients only hire beginners on UpWork? I am hiring there and I certainly have to pay way more than $5 per hour. My experience is that the price for software development starts at about $25/hour. That is for a student with a little bit of experience and rather low morale. Devs with actual work experience start at about $50 per hour. Again, moral…

Doesn't it matter where is the developer from? There's a lot of places in the world where $50/hr is way above local market rates, but is it easy for a developer outside US or UK to make that much on Upwork?

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