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Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

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21–30 of 42 posts

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#21
I've found most large companies introduce things like scrum without really understanding why they're doing them.

For example, a company I worked for a few months back paid a management consultant tens of thousands of pounds to help them improve the productivity of the engineering team. As a result various new ways of working were introduced, one of which was a very strict implementation of scrum.

To oversee these new ways of working several scrum masters were hired at the cost of several hundreds of thousands of pounds in salaries.

At no point during this process was the engineering team themselves consulted so of course the whole thing was a nightmare and significantly reduced our productivity as we were now spending half of our time attending unneeded scrum meetings and being chased by scrum masters. Actual problems we faced such as needing to support legacy system and the constant bug fixing of crappy code we were forced to ship were never discussed.

In my experience scrum works well as a rough guide for how to manage a modern software team, but it rarely works when it's done bureaucratically and introduced by people higher up in the organisation who have little understanding of the actual problems faced by the engineering team. Rarely have I found scrum to be the core problem. It's usually that the people who introduce scrum care more about introducing scrum than something that works.

My experience of scrum in small companies, especially small companies with a software focus is far more positive. When companies are able to be flexible and avoid dogmatically implementing scrum it can work well, but I've certainly shared your frustration several times in my career.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#23
Scrum isn't for everybody. I would say it is for organisations or departments whose business is not developing products, but who develop products to service their business needs. For everyone else, there are many better options to choose from.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23234572

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#24

I think it’s somewhat of a solution in search of a problem. Every company I’ve worked for, regardless of their Scrum religion level, seem to end up in the same place - the PM nagging for updates (even if we just had our scrum an hour ago) and constantly asking if there’s anything they can do to help or if there’s anyone else on the team that can help. No, I would have told you if there are blockers. Just because ther…

> scrum religion level

What a nice way of putting it! They should add this to Joel Test on scale of 0-10.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#26
There’s a wonderful talk by Dave Thomas, one of the creators of the Agile Manifesto, about the perversion of its original intents by the “Agile Industrial Complex”.

Basically, Agile with capital A is ridiculous. But needs to exist in order to sell the industry behind it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a-BOSpxYJ9M

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#27
I think scrum and all agile frameworks are trying to solve two problems.

1) Making good software efficiently

2) How can stakeholders get a better sense of how much work a team can do per unit of time

I don't think scrum offers anything in the first department that "Hey, don't do waterfall" doesn't. I don't think this advice needs a capital "Agile" or Scrum though. It's pretty obvious nowadays.

As for the second gaol, I don't think it offers much either beyond the advice "Hey, speak up if you encounter a blocker and think it's going to take longer." Again, I don't think that deserves a capital Agile / Scrum. Has anyone actually been on a team where you nailed down your velocity and this truly helped anyone?

I think a good process is Design Iterate -> Ship, have a real quick standup to identify problems early and often and then report back to stakeholders. Just pull tickets Kanban style. Have a retrospective once a month or so.

Doesn't deserve or need to be a whole religion.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#28
Scrum is a tool, it all depends how it's used. Kind of bizarre to me that some people think there is no value in planning out work, or thinking about how long it will take, or what will be involved, or prioritizing, or keeping stakeholders informed... If there's no customer, there's no product. At the end of the day, it's a business.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#29

Scrum is a tool, it all depends how it's used. Kind of bizarre to me that some people think there is no value in planning out work, or thinking about how long it will take, or what will be involved, or prioritizing, or keeping stakeholders informed... If there's no customer, there's no product. At the end of the day, it's a business.

It's possible to do all that without Scrum. I feel like Scrum works best with a lower level of team maturity, where someone can't report blockers without a daily meeting, or someone would just jump in on a task without thinking how long it takes.

Re: Ask HN: Do you think Scrum is a sham?

#30

All of these fancy-dancy layers to software development just seem ridiculous to me. Coordinate with the rest of your team, coordinate with your customer. However that takes form is up to the team. You want quality? Give the devs some breathing room. However as one commenter said, it's not about quality. Big companies have to feel that sweet, sweet cash, as soon as possible, at the cost of the devs.

Ironically, quality will equate to cash for most companies. No, what companies want is observability and control, and that's what scrum enables -- for Product to be able to surveil and manipulate what Eng does.
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