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Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

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Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#21

Post by josephcsible »

flowinho wrote: post #20
zachberger wrote: post #8

Disclaimer: I work at Google. In cloud, not on Android. I am privacy conscious so I though I would give a try at Graphene OS, it was brutal. It was overall stable and the stock android R was refreshing. The app selection available through F-droid was very limiting and the quality of apps was a struggle compared to those in the app store. I wish there was some incentive for the better apps to open source and publish o…

Gotta step in as a GrapheneOS User. You have multiple options. The easiest and most approachable one is: install Aurora Store from F-Droid. It gives you access to Google Play + App Updates without logging you into Google. This almost feels identical to Google Play itself. Next: think about install the Experimental GMS Support that GrapheneOS offers. If you e.g. absolutely need an App that has troubles working without…

> Oh and stay as far away from MicroG as possible, it seriouly cripples the security of GrapheneOS by a lot.

Doesn't this severely limit which apps you can install?

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#22

Post by pdkl95 »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #17
grawprog wrote: post #5

With a stock, store bought android rom with google play services and such? It might help anonymize your device. If you sign into a network regularly that you use with devices you sign into google with, or a network google associates you.with, they might correlate you with the device. If you follow your normal routine of locations, browsing or other behaviour google is aware of, google may associate the device with wh…

Good but who are "you" to google? Unless you sign in, you are just number on which they have data but not tied to an account. Right?

You are only "just [a] number" for a very brief period. As soon as you generate enough data points[1] to establish a recognizable subset of your pattern-of-life, the not-signed-in account can (and probably will) be correlated with your other accounts, some of which probably have data that identifies the real "you".

One of the most common mistakes people make when discussing the data collected by someone like Google is only considering the data in isolation. In reality, data is often combined with other databases.

[1] The minimum number of data points might can be very small: handful of timestamped locations at your home and job is probably unique, matching browser fingerprints if you used the same browser for logged-in and not-logged-in activity, or - as this is Google and their OS - maybe even simply a single even: hearing a MAC address known to be om your home wifi over the radio.

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#23

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

I bought a moto g30 for this reason that it is stock android. Do not have a google account so haven't signed in. I do believe by disabling a lot of google crap, using newpipe any data google does take from my phone is stuck behind a "user #37484774" or something. My name is not tied to any online account so who cares.

Oh, BTW I use pihole at home so tracking is minimized even more

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#24

Post by dotancohen »

zachberger wrote: post #8

Disclaimer: I work at Google. In cloud, not on Android. I am privacy conscious so I though I would give a try at Graphene OS, it was brutal. It was overall stable and the stock android R was refreshing. The app selection available through F-droid was very limiting and the quality of apps was a struggle compared to those in the app store. I wish there was some incentive for the better apps to open source and publish o…

  > I donate to many apps on Patreon, should I just message to
  > the devs and ask them to go open source and publish on f-droid?
Yes, you should. This is actually a very effective measure.

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#25

Post by olingern »

zachberger wrote: post #8

Disclaimer: I work at Google. In cloud, not on Android. I am privacy conscious so I though I would give a try at Graphene OS, it was brutal. It was overall stable and the stock android R was refreshing. The app selection available through F-droid was very limiting and the quality of apps was a struggle compared to those in the app store. I wish there was some incentive for the better apps to open source and publish o…

Off topic question, but what is the sentiment towards employees who want to protect their privacy at Google?

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#26

Post by passerby1 »

flowinho wrote: post #20
zachberger wrote: post #8

Disclaimer: I work at Google. In cloud, not on Android. I am privacy conscious so I though I would give a try at Graphene OS, it was brutal. It was overall stable and the stock android R was refreshing. The app selection available through F-droid was very limiting and the quality of apps was a struggle compared to those in the app store. I wish there was some incentive for the better apps to open source and publish o…

Gotta step in as a GrapheneOS User. You have multiple options. The easiest and most approachable one is: install Aurora Store from F-Droid. It gives you access to Google Play + App Updates without logging you into Google. This almost feels identical to Google Play itself. Next: think about install the Experimental GMS Support that GrapheneOS offers. If you e.g. absolutely need an App that has troubles working without…

> stay as far away from MicroG as possible, it seriouly cripples the security of GrapheneOS by a lot.

Do you mind sharing some details on this? I did not hear strong statements like this one before.

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#27

Post by shapefrog »

drivebycomment wrote: post #18
privacyisntdead wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding layers of difficulty to vacuuming up my data. Protections from spying on emails, texts, right to be forgotten, geofencing warrant grab all’s.

> Protections from spying on emails Do you mean your email inbox ? If so, if you're not signed in, there's nothing here for Google to know. If you're using gmail, obviously when you access your gmail from your phone, Google would know. Either you're using gmail or not. Obviously, emails you send to other gmail users, Google has access to them through other's inboxes, but that is completely independent from your devic…

> geofencing warrant grab all’s

You are going to have to go pull the SIM and service, and keep your phone in a faraday bag as well. All the network providers do these, along with real time location tracking.

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#28

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

passerby1 wrote: post #26
flowinho wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta step in as a GrapheneOS User. You have multiple options. The easiest and most approachable one is: install Aurora Store from F-Droid. It gives you access to Google Play + App Updates without logging you into Google. This almost feels identical to Google Play itself. Next: think about install the Experimental GMS Support that GrapheneOS offers. If you e.g. absolutely need an App that has troubles working without…

> stay as far away from MicroG as possible, it seriouly cripples the security of GrapheneOS by a lot. Do you mind sharing some details on this? I did not hear strong statements like this one before.

IIRC It requires allowing apps to mimic other app's signatures and pretend to be them, "signature spoofing". MicroG mimics the Google play services signature.

But that is really crippling, because apps can now spoof other apps signatures, essentially apps can pretend to be other apps. That opens a lot of opportunities for an attacker.

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#29

Post by theshrike79 »

pdkl95 wrote: post #22
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good but who are "you" to google? Unless you sign in, you are just number on which they have data but not tied to an account. Right?

You are only "just [a] number" for a very brief period. As soon as you generate enough data points[1] to establish a recognizable subset of your pattern-of-life , the not-signed-in account can (and probably will) be correlated with your other accounts, some of which probably have data that identifies the real "you". One of the most common mistakes people make when discussing the data collected by someone like Google…

Someone with more writing and artistic skills really should make a comic strip or something about this. One we could share with less technical people.

Even technical people really don't seem to understand how far data aggregation can go. Multiple small information points are collated into profiles, you need to be Jason Bourne -levels of vigilant to not create a trackable fingerprint online.

Re: Ask HN: How much is Google collecting and keeping on Android if not signed in?

#30

Post by brnt »

zachberger wrote: post #8

Disclaimer: I work at Google. In cloud, not on Android. I am privacy conscious so I though I would give a try at Graphene OS, it was brutal. It was overall stable and the stock android R was refreshing. The app selection available through F-droid was very limiting and the quality of apps was a struggle compared to those in the app store. I wish there was some incentive for the better apps to open source and publish o…

> The app selection available through F-droid was very limiting and the quality of apps was a struggle compared to those in the app store.

That's funny because I would say the exact opposite. On the Play store it's extremely easy to accidentally install apps that have nothing to do with what you were looking for, never mind the absolute garbage it helpfully suggests on the start screen.

First thing I tell people around me is to get Fdroid and look there first. Seems much safer to me.

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