Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

news.ycombinator.com

21–30 of 32 posts

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#21
This is one of pg's theses about startups -- one that he bet heavily on when he became an investor. And the first essay that had a significant audience.

http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html

I'm surprised that conventional wisdom has flipped at HN. Is C++ now considered just as good a language for web startups as Python or Ruby? Really?

This feels quite eerie. I've felt the "decline of HN" posts were a bit overblown but this really shows, at a minimum, how the community has little to do with its origins any more.

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#22
Stackoverflow's answer: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/341993/is-django-developm... A technical manager's comparison: http://kurtgrandis.com/blog/2010/02/24/python-django-vs-c-as...

Python/Django wins! I've also heard anecdotal evidence of a .Net killing a person's startups because of the difficulty of development.

I was trained in Python/Django and am now working in ASP.NET/C#. I've opened my mind to it, and can get stuff done, but I always feel like it would be faster & more elegant to do it in django.

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#25
post #6
post #3

The short answer is no. The only exception I can even think of in extremely rare cases where you program something in a language some company would not want to use and may potentially not acquire you for (which for most web languages it's not an issue), it should not dictate how successful your application is in terms of users, revenues, growth, and/or overall outcome of the company itself. You may run into scaling i…

What if you hire developers to maintain the code? Doesn't the more readable syntax affect the developers' performance? (Honest question, not trying to start a programming language flame war.)

Doesn't the more readable syntax affect the developers' performance?

What does "readable" mean? If "readable" means "I don't like sigils" or "operator overloading confuses me" or "everyone should indent their code the same way", I suspect you won't get any interesting answers.

Have the developers any experience in this language? Have they significant experience in this language? Have they any experience with the other developers? Have they significant experience in the problem domain?

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#26
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Let's imagine that Facebook was written in Perl, YouTube in Ruby, and Twitter in PHP, do you think they would still be successful?

So you're saying those three languages are so defective that they would have killed the startups that used them?

No, not at all. Do you think Facebook would have gone so far into implementing all the current features since the launch if the whole site was written in Perl? Same thing with YouTube and Twitter...

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook and YouTube yes. I am unsure about twitter.

Could you please explain?

For facebook, considering how often stuff is broken.. I Think perl or php would've done a fine job.

For youtube, I think the pull is uploading / watching videos online, and it just doesn't have anything to do with the language they picked.

For Twitter, I'm not sure how it's successful in the first place, but I do feel like there was a lot of enthusiasm in the ruby community, simply because they were based on ruby. So if they picked say php, would they have had that early cache of users? I don't think so.

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#28
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying those three languages are so defective that they would have killed the startups that used them?

No, not at all. Do you think Facebook would have gone so far into implementing all the current features since the launch if the whole site was written in Perl? Same thing with YouTube and Twitter...

Um, sorry, was that intended as a clarification? You merely repeated your original question.

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#29
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Let's imagine that Facebook was written in Perl, YouTube in Ruby, and Twitter in PHP, do you think they would still be successful?

Facebook and YouTube yes. I am unsure about twitter.

Given that Facebook is written in PHP, and Twitter (I think) started out in Ruby, I'm not sure your assertion is well supported by your examples.

Keep in mind too, that the backend you launch with will not be the same as the backend you have at your multibillion dollar IPO. It _may_ still be written in the same language, but thats certainly not a given.)

Re: Ask HN: Could the back-end language influence the success of a Web startup?

#30
I'm a big fan of rapid prototyping in Perl - not because I think it's a more appropriate solution, but because it's the language _I'm_ most productive in while in "make it up as I go along" mode (and the language I enjoy random hacking in most). If I'm not going to write a spec before I start coding, I'll get to proof-of-concept stage very quickly using Perl. So long as you remember to _always_ throw the first one away and plan to rewrite it, getting something working _fast_ is a great advantage - even if only to allow you to fail fast - I'd rather give up on a weekends worth of Perl hacking that revealed no-one else cares about the problem I'm trying to solve, than a weeks worth of careful design spec and carefully considered system architecture and code structure.

So long as you admit to yourself when you've got a quick-n-dirty hacked together dog and pony show, I think the "best" _initial_ back-end language is the one that you can get a MVP up and running and generating customer feedback most quickly. Even if you _know_ you need a multi-cloud-auto-scaling no-sql-memory-cached auto-sharding super-service to support your 10,000 simultaneous users, you don't need to build all of that until you've got demonstratable traction... You _certainly_ will be better off with a single-threaded-maxed-out-at-8-users prototype, and getting real customer feedback early.

Once you've proved the problem is worth solving, _then_ do your massive-scale system architecture, and choose the ongoing backend based on that.

Post reply on HN