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Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

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Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#21

Post by Kaizyn »

turoczy wrote: post #4

I'm sorry to say that your experience is not an unusual one. Speaking as one of those non-programmer types, I'd tend to agree with you. If you're a small team of developers cranking out code, there's not much value to having someone who can't contribute to your product. As far as meeting programming partners goes -- in Portland at least -- I always recommend user groups or technical focus groups (e.g., Mobile Portlan…

When would you advise seeking out a business partner then? What role on a team would you consider to be a valuable contribution? Coming from the non-programmer side, I hope that you might have a better appreciation for this than one of us code monkeys.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#22

Post by retube »

Because people that (just) write code aren't going to make money. A product is nothing, NOTHING, without sales. Mostly those sales are driven by people specifically tasked with that. How they make sales happen will be a combination of industry contacts and knowledge of how to build the appropriate sales channels.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#23

Post by fleitz »

They bring the ability to open doors that are currently closed. My co-founder who has not written a line of code has been instrumental in our success. When I'm coding she's talking to customers, talking to investor, etc. They bring a different perspective and insight into the product. For the most part we are not writing software for other coders we're writing for customers. A person who doesn't code IMHO is always going to be a little closer to the mark than someone who lives and breathes code. In short, they avoid your company having a monoculture.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#24

Post by beagle3 »

I'm on a 2+1+1 team: 2 hard core techs, 1 manager (but with a serious tech background), 1 sales/marketing/bizdev/business intelligence person.

The sales/marketing person has made connection with all the right people in the industry, has generated a huge interest in our product, has gotten some RFQs running, and has mapped the competitive landscape better than any of us techs could do. (Especially since we are busy coding) - things that you wouldn't necessary look at, such as - who are the key decision makers with a customer organization, what are their internal conflicts and pain points.

Do not underestimate the value of a good bizdev / bizint / sales / marketing person (bbsm).

That said, it is much harder to evaluate the capabilities of such a person -- even for people who do that well -- than it is for a tech guy to evaluate the capabilities of another tech guy. So not every bbsm person is worth their weight in some precious metal - but some (including ours, luckily), do.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#25

Post by turoczy »

Kaizyn wrote: post #21
turoczy wrote: post #4

I'm sorry to say that your experience is not an unusual one. Speaking as one of those non-programmer types, I'd tend to agree with you. If you're a small team of developers cranking out code, there's not much value to having someone who can't contribute to your product. As far as meeting programming partners goes -- in Portland at least -- I always recommend user groups or technical focus groups (e.g., Mobile Portlan…

When would you advise seeking out a business partner then? What role on a team would you consider to be a valuable contribution? Coming from the non-programmer side, I hope that you might have a better appreciation for this than one of us code monkeys.

I've always found, as a marketing guy, that I'm most helpful once the developers' initial prototype is up and running. That's when folks like me can start helping carve out the minimum viable product, identifying and communicating to the target market, and crafting the story to help get the product out there.

I've found that engaging earlier--and attempting these efforts sooner--is a mistake. It tends to cause more conflict than not. To me, engaging too early is like standing there and telling a painter "maybe you should use more green" or telling a musician "try a different chord."

I find I'm most helpful when I can engage with a developer who has realized the initial iteration of his/her vision.

Admittedly, this may result in a little wasted time and some backtracking. But more often than not, that's a small hurdle for the benefits of a) having someone realize their vision and b) reaching a point of being comfortable with, seeking, and accepting criticism and guidance. It just starts the whole relationship out on a much better footing.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#26

Post by larrys »

"Also how do you meet programming partners. I have been working by myself for a while but"

The above statement you made is a good reason why you do need someone who is is not a programmer (as well). There are many skills necessary for a good startup and many of them don't involve programming.

The fact that you have to ask a question like that of others and can't figure out the answer yourself is a good indication of how you lack certain skills that are necessary.

You've been reading to many stories about all that counts is top programming skills to be a success and the world will beat a path to your door.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#27

Post by aerique »

roel_v wrote: post #19

Where is this type of event? I'm in Europe (the Netherlands, to be more precise) and I have been trying to meet people who are more business-minded for years, but I can't seem to find any events like the one you describe. I guess I'm looking in the wrong places?

I was planning to attend this for the first time but I wasn't able to last time: http://www.meetup.com/Hackers-and-Founders-Amsterdam-NL/

Perhaps others who did go can chip in whether it's any good.

Also if you're near Delft I can point you to an upcoming event.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#28

Post by issa »

This is a version of the three blind men and the elephant. I promise you there is a sales/marketing message board out there somewhere with a post about how programmers are generally interchangable.

The bottom line is that a successful business needs a LOT of things to come together well, programming is just one of them.

The most important requirement is vision. You need someone with a clear vision of where the company is, where it is going, and how it will get there.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#29

Post by russell »

strlen wrote: post #12

First, Don't go to "startup events", meet with customers, other in your industry, find advisors (either technical advisors, or non-technical advisors who have a proven track record of raising funds, doing "business operations" et al). Attend technical conferences to find programming partners and (most importantly) potential customers and advisors. Don't waste your time around "biz dev" types (especially the ones with…

I concur. If you are doing web or app development, all you need are some non-tech reviewers to keep from making stupid mistakes.

If you are looking at the enterprise space strlen's advice is sound. What you really need is an adviser with connections in your target industry to mae connections and open doors.for you. (Get legal advice on how to structure the relationship, so you dont get blindsided by a submarine co-founder later on.) Find the industry associations; attend their conferences; read their journals/rags. At the conferences you can find customers you can work with.

Re: Ask HN: What does a non-programmer bring to a 2-3 person startup team?

#30

Post by agaton »

For me, the real question isn't about "how to find a technical or non-technical" co-founder but "how to find another great entrepreneur that want to join a hell of a ride". That's even harder than to find a person w tech- or non-technical background.

Of course it's a big plus if the person that you'll have as an partner is a great programmer, designer or business developer. But to be honest, the most important asset of a co-founder is his engagement. Find people who are highly motivated to work with you, your idea and your product and you'll be able to achieve awesomeness.

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