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Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

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Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#21

I run a low-level programming conference [0] with professionals who rely on C and C++ day-to-day or just low-level stuff in general. While this is a plug, I genuinely believe joining the event and talking to them would help you. The networking / hallway effect, even virtually, shouldn't be underestimated either. Good luck -- there's definitely lots of system software people needed, as someone else here pointed out. […

Nice to see you here, good job with the handmade conf :)

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#22
So there is the Problem Domain(specific subject expertise eg. ML, Big Data etc.) and there is the Solution Domain(Languages, frameworks, platforms etc.) As a Programmer you need to become good in the latter so as to apply it in any problem domain that you might be asked to do in a specific job. IMHO, a decent mastery of C/C++ is a must. Because that entire ecosystem allows you to work on everything from dinky little MCUs to honking big servers your opportunity space is large. They form the underlying bedrock and a "glue" between everything. The added benefit is that you are forced to understand how Computers really work. Thus you can fully focus on the problem without simultaneously struggling to map it into a specific language/framework/toolchain/HW. Of course in any non-trivial system, you may need to pick up different languages but that can be done as need arises (for similar type of imperative/OOP languages). C/C++ will never go away and will always be needed.

On the Problem Domain front, Cloud Computing and Data Science are here to stay. They are fundamental shifts in the computing space and hence one needs to become knowledgeable in them. I am not too gung-ho on the AI/ML fad since there is too much hype around its supposed benefits but of course you can study it for its intellectual challenge and apply as need arises.

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#23
post #13
post #6

I agree with gregjor, and I’ll just add that I recommend checking out these (highly entertaining) videos by Alex Stepanov, creator of the C++ STL: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHxtyCq_WDLXFAEA-lYoR... In the first few lectures he lays out what he thinks it takes to be a great programmer. I’m pretty confident that there will be a job market for great programmers for at least the next 15 years.

+1 for Stepanov. Programmers who can solve problems, add value, and work with other people will always be in demand.

Not to be snarky, but this is just a oft-repeated platitude by the "Management" types who do not understand the psychology behind programming. Given the synergy between language and thought expression, mastery of a language is what will help you solve a problem and add value. If you just have a cursory knowledge of the language you will never get anything done.

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#24
post #14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning a language is easy, Learning the idioms, ecosystem, culture of a language to become senior level can take years.

Maybe. I think of a senior programmer as someone with a track record of adding value, capable of solving problems, leading a team, making sense of requirements. Mastering every intricacy of a language and its ecosystem has value but that’s not what most employers or customers care about or pay for. My customers almost never care about the language or tools I use, or quality of the code, or anything programmers obsess…

I think you are forgetting that when somebody solves a problem and adds value, it cannot be disassociated from how it got there. That is where mastery of the language/technical details come in. Of course you don't need to know all dark corners but fluency in commonly used idioms/techniques are a must.

PS: David Packard's address to Managers might be relevant here - https://gizmodo.com/the-hp-way-how-bill-hewlett-and-i-built-...

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#25
post #18

My 2 cents: anyone selling themselves as an X programmer would immediately lose points as far as I'm concerned if I were hiring. Programming languages are tools. Being a C programmer is like being a hammer woodworker. It makes no sense.

I have seen C++ programmers jump from HFT to image processing to video compression and then to embedded systems.

They were completely different domains.

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#26
post #10

Depends on your goals to start with. Regardless of what I think about C, it is undoubtly the king of UNIX/POSIX platforms and embedded development. So that might be an area you feel at home with. Although C++ has lost the full stack role it once enjoyed with the 90's OS stacks, it is the current king of GPGPU programming (CUDA, Metal Shaders, SYCL and HLSL), HFT, what game engines use at their core. Finally as many a…

Thank you. I feel more comfortable with C++ & Python. Somehow Java irritates me!

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#27
post #9

My experience with our C/C++ devs: they do a wide variety of software. From old Windows programs, Embedded firmware with or without operating system, drivers, or extensive Linux based UI programming. They are hard to replace, are tough problem solvers and deliver code in our toughest environments. I think all this data/ai focus is nice, but I think hardware is the real deal breaker. Have an eye on Rust in all the reg…

Do you think Rust will get a leg up on C++ in the near future?

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#28

So there is the Problem Domain (specific subject expertise eg. ML, Big Data etc.) and there is the Solution Domain (Languages, frameworks, platforms etc.) As a Programmer you need to become good in the latter so as to apply it in any problem domain that you might be asked to do in a specific job. IMHO, a decent mastery of C/C++ is a must. Because that entire ecosystem allows you to work on everything from dinky littl…

Thank you for your insights. A couple of answers talked about Rust - do you have an opinion on this language and its uses?

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#29
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. I think of a senior programmer as someone with a track record of adding value, capable of solving problems, leading a team, making sense of requirements. Mastering every intricacy of a language and its ecosystem has value but that’s not what most employers or customers care about or pay for. My customers almost never care about the language or tools I use, or quality of the code, or anything programmers obsess…

To get anything done fast, and reliably it takes that knowledge to be decent.

Of course. I should have written that programming mastery, which includes a good understanding of how to use programming languages, is necessary but not sufficient to achieving "senior" status, or building a long-term career in the field. A programmer who focuses exclusively on mastering languages is like an architect who focuses exclusively on mastering drafting. I would have thought this would go without saying, but more and more I see programmers define themselves in terms of languages and related tools, and even demand that their work revolves around their preferences. That's a limiting choice, not a way to build a successful career.

Re: Ask HN: Job prospects for pure C and C++ programmers?

#30
post #20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. I think of a senior programmer as someone with a track record of adding value, capable of solving problems, leading a team, making sense of requirements. Mastering every intricacy of a language and its ecosystem has value but that’s not what most employers or customers care about or pay for. My customers almost never care about the language or tools I use, or quality of the code, or anything programmers obsess…

Please point me to these employers who don't care about technical skill. I was a tech lead for a year and senior developer for another on a FileNet application. I would love a $140k+ tech lead position that doesn't require experience in the tech.

I never wrote that employers don't care about technical skills. You either didn't read what I wrote or you reduced it to a binary choice so it doesn't make sense.
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