Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#21

Post by vb6sp6 » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

eaandkw wrote: post #5

I think I despise marketing. For one marketers and spam calls have basically made me put my phone in airplane mode permantely, only allowing people in my contacts to get thru. I am getting close to the point of getting rid of my cell phone. If I get unsolicited emails I set up a rule to send them straight to the trash can. Mostly I am getting tired of every single interaction with a person or technology being used or…

I don't think "marketing" is to blame here.

Spam never seems to lead to a legitimate businesses (having to unsubscribe from legitimate newsletters and such is annoying)

And lots of products and services seem to want to extract data and money, but that also feels like it is a result of "product" departments, not the marketing departments.

I do agree with your overall sentiment: It is really annoying to do business with lots of companies out there.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#22

Post by XCSme » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:05 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #16

I dislike that people think that landing pages and good copy == marketing. Those are tools that sometimes apply to good marketing, but marketing itself is just getting the right message to the right people. That can be honest communication, just saying that you have a product that solves a problem. It doesn't have to be a landing page... it doesn't even have to be online. Talking is marketing. Radio is marketing. Pri…

The thing is that you should indeed start with the landing page, as it makes it a lot easier to define your target audience, message, benefits, etc. Also, it isn't really worth bringing customers to a landing page that looks awful, as you might lose a lot of customers that you manage to bring at your door step just by showing a low quality website, even though your product might be good. I think it's about 50-50 the importance of on-page optimizations and off-page marketing. I also think it's about 70% product and 30% marketing.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#23

Post by XCSme » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:13 PM UTC

I don't despise marketing in general, just marketing done for the sake of marketing. For example I hate blog posts that are create purely for SEO purposes.

Personally I just can't start marketing my product, even though I think it's one of the best in its space (analytics). The reason: I want to be sure it's the best, otherwise I would feel that I am just tricking people into buying an inferior product (which is what most marketing does nowdays, trick people into buying lower quality products for more money).

I think product should precede marketing. First make something great, then let people know about it. Build something truly better and only after that let the world know. Don't trick people into buying shitty products.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#24

Post by XCSme » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:16 PM UTC

type0 wrote: post #18

I despise deceptive marketing

Not only deceptive, but marketing that just promotes mediocre or bad products for premium prices.

Oh, and also, marketing for things/services you don't actually need, that just try to convince you that their thing is indispensible for your life.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#25

Post by jdmoreira » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

I absolutely despise marketing, sales and advertisement. The reason is simple, they are in the business of making you feel bad with what you've got and try to sell you something to momentarily make you feel better. And let's not forget how much better the planet would be if we didn't buy garbage and took unnecessary vanity trips.

I believe the world would be a much better place without magazines, billboards, etc.

Regarding your SaS... you should definitely not engage in unnecessary conversion emails because developers also hate that.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#26

Post by pryelluw » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

I despise bad marketing. I love and support good marketing. How to tell them apart? Good marketing is about providing value with postive intent. Bad marketing is just plain manipulation.

Hacker news itself (as a product) is an excellent example of marketing a tech product.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#27

Post by vbrandl » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:49 PM UTC

XCSme wrote: post #23

I don't despise marketing in general, just marketing done for the sake of marketing. For example I hate blog posts that are create purely for SEO purposes. Personally I just can't start marketing my product, even though I think it's one of the best in its space (analytics). The reason: I want to be sure it's the best, otherwise I would feel that I am just tricking people into buying an inferior product (which is what…

In general there is nothing wrong with marketing an interior product. It may be cheaper or more promising than the market leader but the customer is still able to decide for themselves. That said, it gets bad as soon as you market something your product doesn't offer (e.g. lie)

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#28

Post by vbrandl » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:56 PM UTC

jdmoreira wrote: post #25

I absolutely despise marketing, sales and advertisement. The reason is simple, they are in the business of making you feel bad with what you've got and try to sell you something to momentarily make you feel better. And let's not forget how much better the planet would be if we didn't buy garbage and took unnecessary vanity trips. I believe the world would be a much better place without magazines, billboards, etc. Reg…

The first two paragraphs sound as if you'd love "99 francs" (novel or movie, the movie captures the novel quite well IMO). It's about the topic of marketing and advertisement from the perpective of a creative producing advertisements (with lots of drama and sex for the story)

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#29

Post by XCSme » Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 12:11 AM UTC

vbrandl wrote: post #27

XCSme wrote: post #23

I don't despise marketing in general, just marketing done for the sake of marketing. For example I hate blog posts that are create purely for SEO purposes. Personally I just can't start marketing my product, even though I think it's one of the best in its space (analytics). The reason: I want to be sure it's the best, otherwise I would feel that I am just tricking people into buying an inferior product (which is what…

In general there is nothing wrong with marketing an interior product. It may be cheaper or more promising than the market leader but the customer is still able to decide for themselves. That said, it gets bad as soon as you market something your product doesn't offer (e.g. lie)

Well, just look at all the teleshopping ads. They do all the dramatization, with complex stories and inventing problems you don't actually have, and then comes the amazing product that efficiently solves this horrendous problem. They are not lying about what the product does, but they are lying about how it will actually affect your life. This also happens to most of the "self-improvement" books that promise you that you will get rich in 7 days, out of which the last 3 you can just spend to get a 6-pack. The idea is that a product "could" affect your life in a specific way, but it most likely won't in the way it's advertised.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Despise Marketing?

#30

Post by vbrandl » Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

XCSme wrote: post #29

vbrandl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general there is nothing wrong with marketing an interior product. It may be cheaper or more promising than the market leader but the customer is still able to decide for themselves. That said, it gets bad as soon as you market something your product doesn't offer (e.g. lie)

Well, just look at all the teleshopping ads. They do all the dramatization, with complex stories and inventing problems you don't actually have, and then comes the amazing product that efficiently solves this horrendous problem. They are not lying about what the product does, but they are lying about how it will actually affect your life. This also happens to most of the "self-improvement" books that promise you that…

I agree that advertisement should show why a product is good for the problem it solves and not why the problem should be solved.

My previous comment was meant as a motivation to you, to market your (presumably good) product, even if it is not the best in its problem domain, even if it is not the best and let the customer decide. And if you do so, never lie about the actual properties of your product.