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Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

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21–30 of 174 posts

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#21
post #2

It’s probably going to be worse than the Great Depression.

Unlikely. One reason the Great Depression was so bad because there was an environmental catastrophe (the Dust Bowl) which made agriculture very hard at a time when agriculture was still a really, really big deal. The virus does not make normal economic activity particularly hard; we are avoiding economic activity for mostly humanitarian reasons, and we can resume economic activity either when everyone gas been infected anyway (yay pandemics), or when testing and treatment is more readily available.

Another reason the Great Depression got worse than a normal depression was that the Hoover administration unwisely decided to make money and credit less available during the crash. Today's policy response is more about throwing money at people (sometimes just at the politically connected, sometimes fairly). One can and should question many specifics (the response is not super coherent) but at least it is the opposite of fiscal and monetary tightening.

Another reason the Great Depression stayed so very bad for so very long was as a consequence the FDR administration's unprecedented intervention into the economy. I don't mean Social Security, either, I mean things like the National Recovery Administration, which explicitly sought to turn the US into a planned economy, with minimum and maximum prices for everything, run by local politically-connected cartels with their own police powers.

When the NRA was declared unconstitutional, its practices were shifted into other places. A few of the more ridiculous practices led by other agencies are still around. For instance, the Supreme Court only killed the USDA's Raisin Board in 2015 when a raisin farmer objected to them seizing 89,000 tons of raisins (30% of his crop) to give away for free in school lunches. (The USDA of that time was also great at encouraging the big agribusiness factory farming and pushing out what small farmers were still able to operate.)

None of this planned-economy stuff is on the table today — not in the US, not with this administration anyway, and not with the current US senate. There's an outside shot of a fully nationalized health system if Bernie Sanders wins and Democrats take the Senate, and that's the most ambitious plan, and even if we assume the taxes to fund it were quite stultifying indeed, it's unlikely to be as harmful. No one is coming for our raisins.

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#22
post #8
post #4

We are in uncharted territory. At this point it's just guesses (educated or not).

Either this thing is "The End of the World As We Know It", or it is not. Give it another week or so.

This advice does not work.

I have been "giving it another week" for 3 weeks now, trying to figure out which direction it is going to go.

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#23
post #15

I've heard economic forecasters predict that the economy will spring back once the crisis is over. Their reasoning is that the crisis is an external issue, not a problem with the economy itself, as with the housing crisis. Once it becomes more contained and controlled, there will be work for people to do, and people available to do that work, and the economy will just start humming along again. I'm more pessimistic.…

What you are saying, basically, is that due to money flow halting, we will enter a deflationary period?

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#24
post #2

It’s probably going to be worse than the Great Depression.

Unlikely. One reason the Great Depression was so bad because there was an environmental catastrophe (the Dust Bowl) which made agriculture very hard at a time when agriculture was still a really, really big deal. The virus does not make normal economic activity particularly hard; we are avoiding economic activity for mostly humanitarian reasons, and we can resume economic activity either when everyone gas been infect…

The Dust Bowl was a US catastrophe that made the Depression worse here. But the Depression was a worldwide phenomenon.

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#26
post #2

It’s probably going to be worse than the Great Depression.

I think that's clear as COVID-19 has seemingly impacted every single country in the world already, and we've yet to see the worst effects.

Meanwhile, not all countries were impacted by the great depression, Spain being one of the countries not impacted because of the isolated economy at the time.

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#27
post #15

I've heard economic forecasters predict that the economy will spring back once the crisis is over. Their reasoning is that the crisis is an external issue, not a problem with the economy itself, as with the housing crisis. Once it becomes more contained and controlled, there will be work for people to do, and people available to do that work, and the economy will just start humming along again. I'm more pessimistic.…

I would add that even after the crisis is more under control, people will still avoid any not necessary spending for a very long time and this will keep the economy to restart. Also most of them will have depleated all savings at that point and will want to rebuild them aggressively, further reducing spending

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#29
post #13

I’m an economist and I wish I had some guidance to offer, but unfortunately I have none. I’m struggling to get a grip on this situation. Firstly, though I have not worked there for six months or so, I am Italian (from Milan, in the north, the worst-hit area). The economy there has basically shut down. Consumer spending has collapsed, production has collapsed, and logistics are increasingly untenable. What can we expe…

I hope you take this time to hug a chinese person and do your part. Trump is already spreading a lot of anti-china hate.

Re: Ask HN: How bad will the 2020 economic crisis be?

#30
post #2

It’s probably going to be worse than the Great Depression.

Yes, brother works as corporate lawyer. Their office is overflowing with bankruptcy cases...including the very law firm he works for.

Something thats flown under the radar of this is the new “Families First Coronavirus Response Act” which provides 12 weeks of “paid leave for those affected by Covid 19”.

Most (90%) companies will be bankrupt by week 3 or 4, therefore most are now contemplating just declaring bankruptcy now to avoid any further bleed.

It’s easy to write laws such as this, but where does the money for this 12-weeks come from?

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