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Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

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Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#21

Post by stingraycharles »

archi42 wrote: post #19

> a bunch of contract clauses that basically lets the company own all IP while employed. This is default here as well (Germany), but I only interpret this as stuff done during work time. So the stuff I come up with and the code I write at the office on my workstation is automatically owned by my employee. That's fine, because if it wasn't, that would cause all kinds of legal trouble should I ever leave the company. B…

> This is default here as well (Germany), but I only interpret this as stuff done during work time.

This is a very dangerous attitude. I'm from The Netherlands, consulted a lawyer on this matter, and she confirmed it was definitely an issue. I proceeded to make it explicit in the contract that it only covers IP created during work time and/or on company hardware.

What you're saying is definitely understandable, but in my experience, it's not how the legal system is currently looking at these matters.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#22

Post by Kaotique »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #7

Do not do anything non-work related on company equipment! Ever, for any reason, seriously don't do it! Do not even research the idea! Assume the company is logging everything. They likely are. Honestly, I'd just focus on work and learn if you are just starting out. Learn as much as you can while employed by other folks (they are basically paying you to learn). Learn as much about the business your company is in too.…

I find that first advice a bit paranoid. What country are you from where it is normal that a company is logging and spying on its employers? I have a company laptop but there is no logging whatsoever. Outside office hours I use this laptop to do personal stuff all the time.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#24

Post by geocar »

archi42 wrote: post #19

> a bunch of contract clauses that basically lets the company own all IP while employed. This is default here as well (Germany), but I only interpret this as stuff done during work time. So the stuff I come up with and the code I write at the office on my workstation is automatically owned by my employee. That's fine, because if it wasn't, that would cause all kinds of legal trouble should I ever leave the company. B…

> But if I create things in my free time at home, on my own equipment, then that's MINE, and I might start a company from it

That's not entirely accurate: You're required to submit it to your employer if it could be related to your work, see especially §18 (1-2) and §19

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/arbnerfg/BJNR007560957.ht...

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#25

Post by dunika »

Pencil out a block of time each day to work on your project. This can be time spent researching, planning designing, building - the only rule is that you can not do ANYTHING ELSE that isn't related to your project during this time.

At minimum this should be at least one hour a day but 3 hours would be ideal.

Schedule the time and stick to it religiously and you will see results.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#26

Post by a-saleh »

A.f.a.i.k. while I am not a lawyer, rule of thumb is anything you do

* on your own equipment

* on your own time

can be considered yours.

If you want to be extra sure, maybe consider first switching from employment to consulting? A friend of mine was primarily a consultant in pc-game-marketing space and then he founded a company, slowly building out a product.

On the other hand, I get that going for consulting gigs can be daunting, personaly, I prefer the cushy job that is mandated to pay me a salary every month, and to pursue my side-projects, I managed to negotiate a 4 day work-week. In the end the 3 day weekend mostly became a venue for more family time, but I still see it as a more viable future option, than working on a project an hour after my kid is asleep/before she wakes up :D

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#27

Post by Grustaf »

sessy wrote: post #12

1. Be fair to your company. They are paying you to make their product succeed. Imagine a future situation where you are running a succesful company. Would you want your employees taking your money while working on their own pet projects? 2. An hour or two every day and code marathons on weekends can get your a basic version of product out in a few months. 3. Never give in to temptation to steal office hours to work o…

1. Why would the company care what he does in his free time? Assuming he is not using company IP or working on company time, it should be completely up to him.

Sure, the company will not want him to suddenly leave to launch his company, but the way to combat that is by making the position more attractive, and screening for it when hiring.

The American view on labour seems quite similar to slavery.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#28

Post by archi42 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #21
archi42 wrote: post #19

> a bunch of contract clauses that basically lets the company own all IP while employed. This is default here as well (Germany), but I only interpret this as stuff done during work time. So the stuff I come up with and the code I write at the office on my workstation is automatically owned by my employee. That's fine, because if it wasn't, that would cause all kinds of legal trouble should I ever leave the company. B…

> This is default here as well (Germany), but I only interpret this as stuff done during work time. This is a very dangerous attitude. I'm from The Netherlands, consulted a lawyer on this matter, and she confirmed it was definitely an issue. I proceeded to make it explicit in the contract that it only covers IP created during work time and/or on company hardware. What you're saying is definitely understandable, but i…

Wow, okay. I honestly didn't believe that was legally possible - and thanks for pointing out that I'm probably wrong. I checked the wording of my contract, and regarding "my employer has ownership of my work" it explicitly says "im Rahmen dieses Arbeitsverhältnisses" -> "as part of this employment relationship". So I suppose I'm safe (there is a clause that I have to ask for permission to do side jobs; but I know company policy is that permission is always granted and this is about informing them about it).

edit: see geocar's reply.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#29

Post by Grustaf »

WestCoastJustin wrote: post #7

Do not do anything non-work related on company equipment! Ever, for any reason, seriously don't do it! Do not even research the idea! Assume the company is logging everything. They likely are. Honestly, I'd just focus on work and learn if you are just starting out. Learn as much as you can while employed by other folks (they are basically paying you to learn). Learn as much about the business your company is in too.…

I don’t think this is relevant even in the US, Silicon Valley notwithstanding. And it is definitely not relevant in Europe.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#30

Post by pizzapill »

archi42 wrote: post #19

> a bunch of contract clauses that basically lets the company own all IP while employed. This is default here as well (Germany), but I only interpret this as stuff done during work time. So the stuff I come up with and the code I write at the office on my workstation is automatically owned by my employee. That's fine, because if it wasn't, that would cause all kinds of legal trouble should I ever leave the company. B…

Germany is a very special case. AFAIK you can't lose the right to things you create here, that means the "copyright" (Urheberrecht) of code you create will always belong to you. You can't sell it or lose it in any other way. Your employer "only" has the right to use it without limitations. I would not draw conclusions based on the situation in Germany, since the law could be wildly different.
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