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Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#21
Can you tell us what country in Western Europe? Depending on the country, you should worry less or more.

Some cultures are more into this and they value straightforwardness above all else, even if that means a heated yelling match. The expectation is that you yell back (if needed). This would be expected and not considered weird or unacceptable

Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#22
Maybe my story can help you.

One day I had a very hard day in Germany, like you did, with people screaming, pressure etc. Being Brazilian, I'm used to people being nice and caring. A completely different picture here in Germany. I wanted to go back and say fuck it all.

I have chosen to breath a bit, think, chill. In those moments, we are basically being tested. If you are there, you are there for a reason, possibly it's an improvement in life for you, or a challenge. You need to make sure you stick on your head that this is your test, take it as a challenge.

The human mind and body has millions of years of improvements to handle CHALLENGES. We can really go through very tough shit, but you can only activate this mode if you take what you felt, this emotional response, and have a good and positive reaction.

Eventually you start to get over those problems and conquer some respect. But you can only do it, if you eat it up.

It's a bit like school. You get bullied, at some point you fight, you beat one up, the other 5 fuck you up. Then eventually you start to handle those problems and even can come out on top of it. But only if you fight.

Think about the other possibilities, stay on this company 1 year and find another job. There will be other screamers on the other job as well, but keep shovelling shit until you get what you want.

Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#23
post #17

It may not be uncommon in some regions of Bavaria/Austria to directly communicate negative emotions. It is also not uncommon to personally insult the person who caused the negative emotions. In those regions the feedback scale is shifted as follows: 1. No complaints: Good work done 2. Minor insults: acceptable work delivered 3. Heavy insults on personal level: delivered work should be enhanced 4. Person stops talking…

Why do you think the culture is this way? It does not seem optimal.

Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#24

Can you tell us what country in Western Europe? Depending on the country, you should worry less or more. Some cultures are more into this and they value straightforwardness above all else, even if that means a heated yelling match. The expectation is that you yell back (if needed). This would be expected and not considered weird or unacceptable

This is correct IMO. I have worked in cultures where raising your voice and shouting is not considered "yelling" (or demeaning) as an American might interpret it, but just considered communicating directly. Every culture is unique and you should first respect and learn about the culture.

Frankly, ask a co-worker or two for input, be up front and say hey, I had a talk with so and so the other day and I am a little unsure how to interpret it given my lack of knowledge locally. Ask them to help you interpret it, frankly if it is bad better to know now, if it is nothing they'll tell you. Also, they may offer up that this is a normal culture thing or they may say hey, this person is an asshat and this isn't normal and then at least you understand where things are at better.

I have worked a lot with various cultures and finding how to motivate and what works for them is the key thing. I have had people get seriously nervous and on edge that when they knew they screwed up I didn't yell at them so they thought their job was done for, but my style is very calm and easy going 99% of the time. I rarely raise my voice ever, just because it isn't necessary for me to communicate that way plus I'd rather figure out what went wrong and fix it than dwell on who. And if I have to terminate you, it'll never be a confrontational situation because you will know though communication long before that it is coming and you've had many opportunities to fix it, but I won't be an ass and I won't need to raise my voice. But that is not the case in other cultures, so if I was working in some Countries I'd expect a very different way of being treated, I also know I wouldn't work in some because it would be mentally taxing for me.

Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#25
Just a perspective ... they maybe under enormous pressure themselves. See if that is true, let them know you want to do a good job. "If I'm making you so anger, what are actionable steps to where I can do better?"

If they are just jerks, well, maybe you can tough it out for a year.

Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#26
Hey! hope I can help, in a lot of european contries employees are quite protected. Which means that if your job is harming you, in either physical or mental ways you are protected by law.

With these things it's hard though, try to keep a record of what happens and try to not participate in it.

Depending on how widespread it is. Talking to HR might work, wherein it helps if you can take a couple colleagues with you who have had the same happend to them. (so it's not just you)

In Holland for example there are state law offcies who give advice and help out with these kinds of things. They know what your situation is and how it can be handled best. Lawyers offices might also have free first meeting to help you and provide you with some context.

You seem to have a hard time with this. I've been is a very similar position. What I would advice is you talk to you GP and get appointments with psychologists. This will also protect you later if things get worse and you don't wanna show up at work anymore. Being sick at some, with a psychologist treatment will also make sure they can't fire you. and then it's a bit of a waiting game perhaps.

Anyways, feel free to message me and I can help out. I went through a similar situation and it really messed me up. I would like to make sure it doesn't get that bad for other people.

Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#27
Try to stay calm and think about your current situation, and what effects any decisions you make will have long term, it is easy to make bad decisions when you are in a bad state of mind.

Even if you leave your current job, nothing guarantees that the next one will be better, and it might sound easy to leave everything and go back to your home country, but you will miss a lot by living in the new place for just a short time, the best thing I can think of is to try to talk to your manager and tell them that you are not happy about the way that they communicate with you, and even if you are performing badly that they should inform you about that and what you need to do to improve in a less offensive way, some people will change their behavior once they are confronted, hopefully that will make them treat you better in the future.

it is hard to offer any advice without any more information, if it is only your manager/team then maybe consider switching to a different team, if it is a company-wide thing then probably it is best to leave, check you current visa/status and see if it is easy to change jobs, if not then think(with a clear and calm head) about whether you can stick with your current job until you can change it or not, and what any decisions you make now will mean down the line.

one last advice if you decide to stay with it, being in a bad workplace will affect you mentally and that might have an affect on your life and relationships outside of work, try to minimize that and keep all of this at work.

Re: Ask HN: Traveled 10k km for new job and was just shouted at. What do I do?

#28
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your post it's hard to work out if the reason you were shouted at was due to a work issue, or someone being rude? If it's the later just ignore it, don't let them get your back up; if it's a work issue ask them to explain carmly what was wrong as shouting doesn't solve the problem...

It was due a work issue. Basically my boss is not happy with performance.

Maybe your are still navigating the work culture in the company/region. Try to figure out how much they expect from their employees. If it’s unreasonably high, don’t blame yourself too much. Otherwise, try to have a constructive conversation with your peers and your manager. Hope you could find someone to talk to :)
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