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Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

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Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#22
post #15

Depends upon what the device market breakdown among your potential customers.. Symbian-everything before ^3 devices not fully html5 WM-everything before WM7 not fully html5 BB-everything past 4.4 is almost full html5 Android- 2.1 and beyond is full html5 iPhone iOS 4 is full html5 I would start examining frameworks such as PhoneGap, QuickConnect, etc to see which covers the best as far as html5. Of course this depend…

How do you call WM7 fully html5?

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks - that is exactly what I'm talking about. But don't you have a problem with older mobile browsers not being able to render the site correctly?

Without describing what phones/operating systems you're expecting to target it's difficult to get specific. You will absolutely run into rendering issues between different mobile browsers, this will likely never go away, but the good news is the majority of the more recent mobile browsers are based off of, or will be, WebKit. If you go the Mobile Web application route and don't limit your scope to more recent phone O…

Well, we'd basically want to target them all! Given that people change their phones more often than their PCs, one would expect the installed mobile browser base to 'fresher' than the PC one. In other words, over the medium term (say 2 years) the rendering issue should hopefully fade away.

It's just a question of timing - when is it going to be OK to go 100% HTML5? (assuming, of course, the app is not particularly complex)

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#24
It depends a lot on the use case of your application. The size of the task, the amount of return use, etc. For one-off, low usage apps a web app can be the better choice.

Also, it depends on how good you want the app to look and behave. With HTML you don't have as much control over how content is loaded, animated, etc. Be prepared to deal with really hard to debug crashes if you're making a heavy app.

Last, but not least, the frameworks: the amount of effort that has been put into the native frameworks makes up for a lot of the (perceived?) ease of using HTML, but having to invent a lot of wheels. But again, it really really really depends on what your app will be doing.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#25

Here is an example of where exactly what you are asking has been done to good effect. By inserting a line of code in your normal website, we detect which device you are on and redirect you to a HTML5 + Jqtouch version of the site which acts and looks a lot like a native app (especially on the iphone) See http://www.pocketdiner.co.uk We've had no problems so far so the answer to your question is yes - HTML5 is mature…

Thanks - that is exactly what I'm talking about. But don't you have a problem with older mobile browsers not being able to render the site correctly?

Would you not arguably have more problems getting those same presumably older handsets to run your app?

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#26
post #7

The App Store / Marketplace is a very important distribution channel, which I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss. Downloading an app in today's modern phone is almost as frictionless as entering a website.

Yes, but it implies the user anticipating the use case... Would you download an app which talks you through fixing a car engine before you actually needed it, for example?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#27
post #7

The App Store / Marketplace is a very important distribution channel, which I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss. Downloading an app in today's modern phone is almost as frictionless as entering a website.

Plus, it's most likely to get users engaged as your app sits there in their apps list

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#28
Mobile Web Applications require an extra bit of awareness and effort from users on the platforms that have browsers good enough to utilize them. I haven't personally seen great adoption rates for them, but they do afford benefits development wise, especially if your goal is to create and launch a cross-platform application quickly. It's certainly a possibility that mobile web applications may get more user awareness with better discovery tools, but the general momentum of user interest has really centered on native applications. Mostly because users, that I have experience with, find using native applications a better experience to web applications, but also because the ecosystem around them has matured quite a bit to make finding and acquiring them so much easier.

There are a number of native applications that simply serve up mobile web applications and that grants them several of the advantages of native applications, though not all, from a discovery, capability and usability perspective. Users typically notice that their experience is sub-par compared to truly native applications, but good ones can get close enough that it doesn't make a huge impact compared to the benefits. You will of course still have to deal with app store/market place submission, but you could always launch the application as a web app until the native version is available, allowing you to even provide the native versions after your intended launch date. Generally speaking it affords you a lot of flexibility for your effort, but I would caution that HTML5 based applications really only work for focused tasks that do not need to rely on native features the varying phones provide.

The questions you really need to ask to make a solid decision on which path to take are, how many platforms are you really targeting and do they all need to be supported immediately? Are there any native features of the phones you're targeting that need/should to be leveraged to make your application useful and successful in accomplishing its primary task? How much effort are you willing to put into supporting and maintaining the application(s)? If all your answers lead to having to support a lot for a little and your application is simple enough to not need native features then an HTML5 implementation would probably make the most sense.

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#29
From my tests on the iPhone, Mobile Safari-based web apps do not have responsive interfaces as compared to native ones. Safari adds a delay when you do things like tap link or button - I'm not sure why, it's probably to disambiguate tapping the link with some other action, since Safari can expect the user to be scrolling and zooming as well on top of any interface element.

Because of this, I find UI that mimics native apps in Safari to be a frustrating experience. Everything looks perfectly native, but all the behavior and touch feedback is slightly off.

Until Apple changes Safari or JQuery Mobile figures out how to get more responsive interaction out of it, I think this mimicking the native iPhone UI is missing the point - UI is about much more than visual theme. Stick to non-platform-specific web app design in the meantime (see Google's Mobile Safari-based apps, for instance).

Re: Ask HN: Mobile dev - Bypass apps and go straight to HTML5?

#30

Mobile Web Applications require an extra bit of awareness and effort from users on the platforms that have browsers good enough to utilize them. I haven't personally seen great adoption rates for them, but they do afford benefits development wise, especially if your goal is to create and launch a cross-platform application quickly. It's certainly a possibility that mobile web applications may get more user awareness…

Excellent comment, thanks. We would require location and touch functionality. The core use case is really quite simple: users provide both text and numerical feedback based on their location - that's basically it. Nothing fancy. It needs to quick and easy to use, work on as many platforms as possible, and - given the nature of the application - is unlikely to be downloaded prior to when it's needed. People are more likely to use it "on impulse" and that's another reason we like the idea of accessing the service as you would a web site.
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