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Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

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Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#21

No. Git is better, GitHub is better, most package managers for finding things are better, stack overflow is better, help forums are better, tools are often free, cloud access and compute power is better, instructional videos on youtube are better, online classes are better. I don't want to go back to 10 years ago and definitely not 20 years ago. I have never been more productive than now.

+1 for package managers. Hard to imagine programming without them, and they're much better now than 10 years ago.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#23
post #7

I started programming (mainly web development) about 20 years ago. I think the lack of current day productivity is due to there being so much more input available. 15-20 years ago you were forced to get into the mix of things and try things out because there weren't 800 blog posts and 227 youtube videos on the topic you're trying to learn. Nowadays it's too easy to research yourself to death without trying anything b…

On the other hand: remember cutting out images for rounded borders, using spacer images to align everything, using Javascript for roll over image swaps, GIF for 'transparency'?

But I agree for most part. I also have +15jr old PHP sites running. It was like upload and forget.

But I'm so glad we now have version control and better IDEs.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#24
As a young person who was 11 years old 10 years ago, I can't really answer that question. But I believe that most people don't know how to handle today's distractions, and it takes a toll on their productivity.

Growing up in midst of the rise of smartphones, I just now realized how much time I spent staring at a screen, being distracted by the constant flow of information and the constant need to communicate. And I still am, although I am cutting back on phone usage and senseless browsing. I just made the decision to subscribe to a weekly printed newspaper instead of fanatically checking the news every day (or sometimes every hour).

Now I don't have any data on this, but I'm observing that people start noticing the downsides of digital things and their interfaces, and start going back to well-tried "analog" stuff. So many blog posts about when to turn your phone off, apps that let you plant trees for not being on your phone (https://www.forestapp.cc/en/), products like the bullet journal (https://bulletjournal.com/) and feature reduced "dumbphones", etc.

It seems to me that this hype of making everything digital, from blackboards and car interfaces to home automation systems and coffee machines, happened without ever paying any thoughts to the real world profits gained by this. A prime example: Teachers use maybe 10% of the functions on an "ActiveBoard" (digital blackboards you can "write" on), spend a lot of time trying to get basic functions to work or calibrating the pen, and their writing looks crooked. Chalk on a blackboard worked just fine before that, the "interface" is intuitive, and the writing (depending on the teacher) more readable, and it didn't cost a couple thousand € of taxpayer money. I'd argue that for the most part ActiveBoards resulted in a big productivity loss in schools.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#25
No, I wasn't. About 15 years ago I've read about older "neckbeard" developers who allegedly could solve complex problems with a few lines of concise clear code in a very Shir amount of time. At the time I thought that was a myth, but now I realize I'm becoming one.

Tooling can be overwhelming, but one don't have to master every single tool they encounter. To this day I use only a few shortcuts in my editor, I don't remember every command line switch that exists for ls, cp, or git. I launch the Dec tools in my browser using a mouse, etc.

But it doesn't matter. These days I make fewer mistakes, and when there's a bug I can accurately predict where its source is.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#26
post #7

I started programming (mainly web development) about 20 years ago. I think the lack of current day productivity is due to there being so much more input available. 15-20 years ago you were forced to get into the mix of things and try things out because there weren't 800 blog posts and 227 youtube videos on the topic you're trying to learn. Nowadays it's too easy to research yourself to death without trying anything b…

That was part of Slack's reason for choosing PHP for their backend. Use a fancy language like Java or Node if you want to do "modern" development. PHP is for getting shit done.

https://slack.engineering/taking-php-seriously-cf7a60065329?...

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#27
I'm in the started 20x years ago boat. The last few years, with the explosion in the number of tools, I've made a consciously aggressive decision to make the tools be my servant whenever possible. It was easier in the past, because there were fewer tools to choose from, and in line with that a lot fewer unnecessary tools to make the mistake of wasting time on. We've hit an inflection, where simplicity explodes into vast specialization. That is likely to get worse before it gets better. People that used to be able to do it all, are now drowning in a wave of tools & increased specialization in an attempt to hold on to that ability. Most likely, if you're one of those people (I am), you'll either have to let go of trying to be able to use every tool, or you'll have to choose to specialize more.

It probably clicks at a different point for everyone, whether 5, 10, 20 years - eventually the thing you'll find that's always going to end up being more valuable than learning a dozen new tools, is your time. Your time is an extremely scarce resource. I'd like to emphasize that 407 times in a row here.

Tools aren't really tools if they don't make you more productive in some manner. What would be the point of a fancy new hammer that caused you 5x more work and accomplished the exact same result as a traditional hammer?

To answer your question. In my opinion, yes, five or more years ago it was easier and faster to complete routine tasks when it comes to building Web/Internet services & product. You can counter the growing complexity by refusing to do unnecessary things. If you don't need to use a tool, do not use it just because it's the latest fad.

Python/PHP/equivalent + Postgres/MySQL/equivalent + vanilla JavaScript = 90-95% of what you'll ever need. If you're building the next juggernaut Web service, then sure, use more tools if you have to, the emphasis though goes on the have to part.

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#28
post #7

I started programming (mainly web development) about 20 years ago. I think the lack of current day productivity is due to there being so much more input available. 15-20 years ago you were forced to get into the mix of things and try things out because there weren't 800 blog posts and 227 youtube videos on the topic you're trying to learn. Nowadays it's too easy to research yourself to death without trying anything b…

That was part of Slack's reason for choosing PHP for their backend. Use a fancy language like Java or Node if you want to do "modern" development. PHP is for getting shit done. https://slack.engineering/taking-php-seriously-cf7a60065329?...

I dont agree with the evangalism of tech companies like this. PHP has pitfalls like everything does and you need to include the context properly. What works for some does not work for many others due to differing constraints.

https://youtu.be/bQU_29Cglyk

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#29

No, I wasn't. About 15 years ago I've read about older "neckbeard" developers who allegedly could solve complex problems with a few lines of concise clear code in a very Shir amount of time. At the time I thought that was a myth, but now I realize I'm becoming one. Tooling can be overwhelming, but one don't have to master every single tool they encounter. To this day I use only a few shortcuts in my editor, I don't r…

do you mean "greybeard"? unless the meaning has shifted a lot over time, you probably don't want to call yourself a "neckbeard".

Re: Ask HN: Were we more productive 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

#30

Your task is to keep your house at a steady 70F when you're there, and 55F when you're not. Can you do this task more quickly now than you could 20 years ago? Your task is to assess your bills and financial health, including outstanding balances, account balances, interest rates and dividends returned. Your task is to determine the weather forecast for this afternoon. Your task is to turn on your computer and downloa…

> Your task is to keep your house at a steady 70F when you're there, and 55F when you're not. Can you do this task more quickly now than you could 20 years ago?

I can, but I still have an old, analog thermostat that I could have had 20 years ago. Just turning the dial every time is, in my experience, much easier than fussing and babysitting a "smart" thermostat.

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