Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 40 posts

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#21

Post by locococo »

dabockster wrote: post #18
locococo wrote: post #6

I am a developer without a degree and transitioned from IT into development. I am in my last year of my Undergrad in CS now. What you need more than anything are skills. Ranging from networking knowledge to having a good command on linux. In addition you have to be able to program in Python, Java, JavaScript, C. You also have to understand data structures like linked lists, queues, b-trees..., and to top it all of un…

> You also have to understand data structures like linked lists, queues, b-trees..., and to top it all of understand algorithm analysis to judge the efficiency of the code you write or look at. While it's true that you need to know how to judge efficient code, the bit about data structures is HR bullshit. If the only indicator about an organization's coding styles during the interview is a bunch of cargo culted quest…

I am not offering the ultimate truth here, just my opinion. However I notice that people seem to be offended by the notion that some knowledge of data structures is required. It's a very basic concept of how to efficiently handle and store data.

I am not sure what people think a basic requirement for a development job is. Being able to learn is a very low threshold in my opinion, and how do you prove that when you don't have a degree and don't know the basics? See the catch there?

Again, If someone want's to be a front end web developer what I am saying is most certainly not required. For anything else I think it holds though.

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#22

Post by skylark »

nxsynonym wrote: post #14
thomascgalvin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't use any whiteboarding questions. There is a coding component of our interview process, but it's all done on a laptop. Our goal is to test like you work, so you have an IDE, access to Google and StackOverflow, and when we ask you to implement an algorithm (like QuickSort) we link to the Wikipedia page in the instructions. We've found that the ability to memorize is basically useless is identifying good candid…

This is what I was hoping to hear! Thanks for replying.

The parent provided one datapoint - his company. But I can tell you from personal experience that this is not the norm (at least in San Francisco.) I've interviewed at a wide variety of companies and I can't even remember the last time I wasn't asked to whiteboard.

Pretty much every company you've heard of uses a similar technical phone screen -> onsite with whiteboarding process. If you're not somewhat proficient at them, you're greatly limiting yourself.

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#23

Post by bdcravens »

Know SQL. Not because you'll be needing it, but because of the bias among older developers that junior developers just glue together frameworks and libraries, and lack real problem solving knowledge. Learning SQL is probably the quickest way to diffuse that.

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#24

Post by tgamba »

I have hired junior web developers, both those right out of school and those without CS degrees. I look for:

- a portfolio website that deploys a range of recent web technologies. This demonstrates initiative, and also the fact that you can set up a web site somehow.

- some freelance work on your resume, even if it's as simple as setting up a WordPress site.

- a code sample, so have something decent ready, again showing an interest in more than basic web development. Deploying a framework other than jQuery is a plus, as long as you show some sufficient hand-coding skills.

- interest in back-end technologies is a plus even of the job doesn't require it

- in the interview, openness, honesty and drive

- and finally the coding test I give you will show if you know what you are talking about

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#25

Post by Fraztastic »

Jeremy1026 wrote: post #12
saiprashanth93 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets go through this one by one: In addition you have to be able to program in Python, Java, JavaScript, C. This is objectively false. To expect a junior developer to know all these is unrealistic, plain and simple. If you have working knowledge of one or two programming languages and have an appetite to learn you are good to go. You also have to understand data structures like linked lists, queues, b-trees..., and t…

Agree with your points, and want to add that I've been in the professional software world for 7 or 8 years now and I don't have an active working knowledge of Python, Java, or C. I do have Objective-C, Swift, PHP, and JavaScript. I can hack together some Java or C, and I can recognize Python. I think asking for full working knowledge of 4 different languages is a bit much for a Junior, or even Mid position. Ability t…

Try applying for a job as if you don't have any professional experience. Almost everyone wants Python, Java, and something with 'C' in the name for junior positions. However, in my limited experience, they only (reasonably) expect (somewhat) in depth knowledge of one ecosystem and just syntactic knowledge of the other two. Took me about six hours to learn Python to answer the interview questions.

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#26

Post by gvajravelu »

We look for junior developers who are "coachable": we can teach them the skills they lack and they will learn quickly.

As a junior developer where I work, we aren't expecting you to know a lot coming in. But we do expect you to have a good attitude and to want to learn. We can teach you how to write software, but we can't teach you about work ethic.

We have one developer who started 10 years ago without a college degree. He's a team lead now.

In summary: - You should want to learn from the senior developers - You should have a positive attitude - You should have a good work ethic (show up on time, help your coworkers, shouldn't act like any task is beneath your skill level)

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#27

Post by slysf »

nxsynonym wrote: post #14
thomascgalvin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't use any whiteboarding questions. There is a coding component of our interview process, but it's all done on a laptop. Our goal is to test like you work, so you have an IDE, access to Google and StackOverflow, and when we ask you to implement an algorithm (like QuickSort) we link to the Wikipedia page in the instructions. We've found that the ability to memorize is basically useless is identifying good candid…

This is what I was hoping to hear! Thanks for replying.

At many bay area startups I've worked for we would do whiteboarding sessions but I would stress that the candidate "treat me like google". I would actively encourage them to ask questions of the type they'd look up, to be comfortable being collaborative. This to me showed much more about a candidate's ability to work on a team, learn quickly, and apply what they've learned than any whiteboard session entirely from memory could prove. This becomes even more important the further out of school a candidate is; some of us took algorithm classes decades ago.

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#28

Post by slysf »

There's a lot of great advice here which can be broken down into two categories: specialist vs generalist. A really important thing to figure out is what kind of developer you are. Which sounds better: a. Constantly being challenged to learn new things, a rapid paced environment where lots of change and challenge are introduced b. Organized environment where work is split up by expertise, groups have a narrow focus where they become experts in their domain and iterate to perfection

Obviously you should have a nice balance of both, but I've found many company cultures to lean more one way or another, and the advice on this post seems to divide similarly. If you like option A I'd recommend getting a good overview of a variety of languages, data stores, and tools/frameworks so you can at least have an idea of which one you'd learn more of for a given problem. If you like option B I'd do a deep dive into algorithms and CS fundamentals with one language (C, Java, etc) and target companies that work with that language. They're also more likely to have a well defined intern/junior dev role than the fast paced shops, but a slower pace of learning/advancement.

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#29

Post by thomastjeffery »

Multicomp wrote: post #17

(Optional: Where do I ask:) Who's hiring Jr. Devs? Because as far as being passionate to learn (and knowing some of the basics of .NET flavored development), I'd like to grow my skillset beyond that of IT Generalist.

As someone who doesn't have much of a resume, but has a lot of knowledge and passion, I have no idea where to present myself.

Every "job listing" I find for programming asks for a 4 year degree and years experience. Since I don't have either (on paper), I have no idea where to show myself.

Who is hiring Jr. Devs? Where?

Re: Ask HN: What is the skillset required to be employable as jr dev?

#30

Post by greenyoda »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #29
Multicomp wrote: post #17

(Optional: Where do I ask:) Who's hiring Jr. Devs? Because as far as being passionate to learn (and knowing some of the basics of .NET flavored development), I'd like to grow my skillset beyond that of IT Generalist.

As someone who doesn't have much of a resume, but has a lot of knowledge and passion, I have no idea where to present myself. Every "job listing" I find for programming asks for a 4 year degree and years experience. Since I don't have either (on paper), I have no idea where to show myself. Who is hiring Jr. Devs? Where?

There are a handful of postings for junior devs on this month's "Who is hiring" thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15384262

Post reply on HN