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Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

#21

Post by mrj »

roam wrote: post #8

I prefer scripting languages over a pure Java stack simply because I can reload the page and see what's happening with the new code. Yes, you can use JRebel, hook up a debugger and tweak settings to get some hot code replacement, but they've always failed me at one point or another, resulting in hours of fun. The compile-check-fix-compile cycle gets under my skin, especially when you're using frameworks and libraries…

Yes, but the question was about jsp, which doesn't require any fancy tricks. :-)

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

#22

Post by mrj »

Tichy wrote: post #5

Just to set up one of the Java frameworks you list is already a lot of work and a lot of wrangling of XML. Without frameworks, it is probably OK if you already have a working web.xml. I used to just copy my working web.xml and modify it. Good luck if you want to create a working web.xml from scratch, though. The specification for a proper web.xml is a PDF with several 100 pages (last time I looked, a couple of years…

Use netbeans! I haven't had to manually hack a web.xml or build.xml in years. I do lots of Java development without touching XML.

Managing that stuff should be left the IDE, that's the sort of thing that XML was originally meant for, at least.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

#23

Post by kp212 »

I know that Fleaflicker which was posted here was a java based app. So they are out there, but I think more of them are from the 2000-2003 time frame. Has anyone here gone from the Java Stack to RoR? What would you recommend to anyone making that transition? I want to make my next project a "learn a new lang" web project. I fairly strong understanding of the Java MVC(Spring, Struts 1), and DB transactional frameworks(Spring JDBC, Hibernate) and wonder what I should be reading for a transition?

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

#26

Post by kp212 »

roam wrote: post #8

I prefer scripting languages over a pure Java stack simply because I can reload the page and see what's happening with the new code. Yes, you can use JRebel, hook up a debugger and tweak settings to get some hot code replacement, but they've always failed me at one point or another, resulting in hours of fun. The compile-check-fix-compile cycle gets under my skin, especially when you're using frameworks and libraries…

You can do that with a JSP page, and Tomcat. You can use JSP very much like a scripting language (no need to hit a servlet, controller, etc), but obviously it can get a little messy to manage depending how large of app you write.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

#28

Post by ptomato »

Tichy wrote: post #7
garyrichardson wrote: post #4

On the low end, I've always thought java has a significant disadvantage: memory footprint. In particular, this is compared to PHP/Perl/RoR/etc. When you start your java app you pre-allocate all the memory you're going to need for the process' lifetime. This could be 512MB, this could be 2GB+, but it's never small. And this is unaffected by your initial traffic volume. It's the same for 0.001 hits/sec or 5 hits/sec. O…

Actually I am afraid to host a RoR app on my server, which runs several Java apps. I think the server has only 256MB of RAM (it is old, but cheap), or maybe 512 - not a lot, in any case. I am much more worried about memory consumption of RoR. Never really launched it in production, but wasn't it the case that you have to load balance between several Mongrels, each consuming > 100MB of RAM? Java is just unpleasant to…

Ruby deployment has gotten at least an order of magnitude less painful in recent years, particularly with Passenger (http://www.modrails.com/). On a couple servers I run the average memory footprint of a Rails app on Passenger (per instance) is 50-60MB.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

#29

Post by roam »

mrj wrote: post #21
roam wrote: post #8

I prefer scripting languages over a pure Java stack simply because I can reload the page and see what's happening with the new code. Yes, you can use JRebel, hook up a debugger and tweak settings to get some hot code replacement, but they've always failed me at one point or another, resulting in hours of fun. The compile-check-fix-compile cycle gets under my skin, especially when you're using frameworks and libraries…

Yes, but the question was about jsp, which doesn't require any fancy tricks. :-)

Once upon a time some guy thought it would be a great idea to simply construct SQL queries, make the DB calls and loop over the result sets trying to create somewhat decent output, all in a single JSP. I'm so incredibly happy I never had to work with him again. When you're writing a very simple todo list: be my guest. When you're attempting to create any kind of decent application and do use JSPs like this: you're stupid.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few apps being built with JSP?

#30

Post by mrj »

roam wrote: post #29
mrj wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the question was about jsp, which doesn't require any fancy tricks. :-)

Once upon a time some guy thought it would be a great idea to simply construct SQL queries, make the DB calls and loop over the result sets trying to create somewhat decent output, all in a single JSP. I'm so incredibly happy I never had to work with him again. When you're writing a very simple todo list: be my guest. When you're attempting to create any kind of decent application and do use JSPs like this: you're st…

Who said anything about all that?
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