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Ask HN: Everybody lies. How do you deal with it though?

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Re: Ask HN: Everybody lies. How do you deal with it though?

#21
My sense of things is that yes, everyone lies to some extent. I don't believe someone who says they don't.

The question is really what magnitude of lying are you talking about?

The way I think about it is something like this: what ethical obligation do you have to be truthful? I usually assume that the obligation is to be truthful, but recognize there are some scenarios where the situation or other person's request of information from you is unethical, and so in those situation I feel under no obligation to reciprocate.

My in-laws, for example, routinely inquire about my spouse and me in ways that are inappropriate and cross boundaries. To me, we should not be in the position of having to refuse to give that information; I have tried, but they ignore that, and escalate things. So now I lie, and feel no guilt because to me they violated basic social contract to begin with.

That's an extreme example, but I think it extends to other more mild situations as well. I think there's some situations where the likely consequence of telling the truth or refusing to give that information is unfair or unreasonable, so I see lying as ethical.

I guess I see the assumption that you should always tell the truth as being based on an assumption, in turn, that the elicitation of information itself is being done in good faith. I don't see that assumption as necessarily true.

Re: Ask HN: Everybody lies. How do you deal with it though?

#22
I don't really lie, but I believed strongly in telling the truth from a young age. For instance, if I tried lying about having some illness, I would literally get a psychosomatic case of it. So, yeah, I have lied, a few times, but hardly ever. Sometimes, I will not say things and let the other party infer it (which they shouldn't have much trouble doing, because I don't hide it, I simply don't see any reason to say things they might find hurtful, unless the demand it. If I see some old acquaintance that looks terrible, I won't say they look good, or the same, or anything...but if they ask, they'll get the true answer.) As it turns out, the world doesn't end if you always tell the truth, though I don't know how you can make that transition if you live in a world held up by lies.

So, I disagree. Not everybody lies.

Re: Ask HN: Everybody lies. How do you deal with it though?

#23
Are you an immigrant by chance?

Some cultures have a greater degree of bluntness. This society makes great use of lies to smooth over social transactions and it's something that can seem alien depending on where you came from. Social lies and soft lies can be difficult to work with early on in life because lies will make you question your assessment of reality and the severity of situations that could affect you adversely. The fact that everyone peddles the same sorts of lies in this culture doesn't make things any easier.

In this society, I think the correct approach is to trust the judgment nature put in you instinctively to sort out the truth from fiction. Moreover, if lies are a sort of social currency, then there's no reason you can't be a fiction monger yourself -- especially if you think the consequences of such lies will be a wash in the grand scheme of things. (In particular, you have to balance soft lies with your sense of what you consider ethical behavior.) In particular, I think you have to be more selective about who you actually owe the truth to rather than commit to framing yourself as a liar.

Re: Ask HN: Everybody lies. How do you deal with it though?

#24
I think your problem (I get super depressed about having to lie so often) is simply because you've not thought it through very well so I'll share a few things I've learned...

The first job I ever had I watched my boss take credit for things I designed several times while I was standing right there listening to them.

At first I was stunned, then I got pissed, then I realized they were just insecure and selfish but I still couldn't recover any respect for them and that lesson stuck with me. I didn't want anyone to think of me the way I thought of them.

There have been a few times when I was sure someone was telling me a lie and I was wrong, so I try not to jump to the conclusion that someone is lying even when what they're telling me sounds a bit far fetched, but I reserve the right to not take it for the truth. There have been times I'm really glad I did that.

As to telling a lie to get out of an uncomfortable situation I can't really think of many times I've done that. I just don't find telling a lie to be easier because I don't want to worry about that coming back to bite me in the ass and that worry is the minimum wage we must pay for a lie.

There are times I know lying could be convenient and potentially beneficial. For example, I quit school in the 10th grade and that doesn't look good on a résumé. But I've learned not to worry about that because the truth is if the person or company doing the hiring cannot see past that one bit than the odds are I probably won't want to work with them.

And if I lied and they hired me and then found out I lied I must expect they should fire me. How could everything else I've told them not be suspect? That would really suck if I found I loved working with them.

No, when you think it through and consider the cost vs benefits it's far easier to not lie and there is no necessity at all to lie and in the end growing old with a clean conscious is what becomes the most valuable think you can possess.

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