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Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

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Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#21

Post by dokein »

I've been in the process of hiring for product management person. Good candidates (who get interviewed) often show great work experience, knowledge about product management cycles, knowledge of the products they own, leadership directing teams, etc. Really great candidates (who get hired) usually have something extra: an unexpectedly deep engineering background allowing them to understand the actual building process at a higher level, non-trivial insights into customers' unexpressed needs (beyond surveys, data-driven bullshit), etc.

To my view, the interview is to screen out the "business" types who are just repeating or rehashing well-known processes you can get from watching a few podcasts and read a couple books. Teach me something I do not know (I am not a professional product manager, so if the person I am hiring cannot tell me something novel then they shouldn't be a professional product manager either).

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#23

Post by lr4444lr »

Taking your description at face value, something is incongruous between how you present yourself in person vs. on your resumé. I can't see how otherwise despite your qualifications on paper and in your phone conversation why a company would spend their time bringing you onsite for a specific position, and then find you unfit but still want to consider you for something else. There seems to be a disconnect that doesn't manifest until that late stage. And I don't think any further online diagnosis of the problem will help. I think you should seek out a trusted individual you know in person to help you identify that incongruity. Realize, it might mean you get rejected earlier in the process, but maybe that's for the best if it saves you time in interview processes that will eventually not work out anyway, and attract the attention of the ones that will faster.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#24

Post by jowiar »

Regardless of whether you continue the job search or not, pick up that hobby. I love my job, but non-work hobbies keep me sane. Relying on career to be the sole provider of personal fulfillment is a recipe for an abusive relationship with your job.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#25

Post by UK-AL »

jghn wrote: post #8
enknamel wrote: post #6

I've noticed a definite increase in companies doing bait and switches. They list higher level positions to attract good people and then try to offer them lower level positions. That's been my experience.

We don't do this but it might appear that way to a candidate. We're hiring people of all levels and if someone comes in who we feel we like but at a lower level we'll offer them that level instead.

It's incredibly annoying since most people are probably in better position than the new lower offer.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#26

Post by enknamel »

jghn wrote: post #8
enknamel wrote: post #6

I've noticed a definite increase in companies doing bait and switches. They list higher level positions to attract good people and then try to offer them lower level positions. That's been my experience.

We don't do this but it might appear that way to a candidate. We're hiring people of all levels and if someone comes in who we feel we like but at a lower level we'll offer them that level instead.

My experience inside and out of companies has been that this tactic is employed quite a bit. I really dislike it but it's the truth. Everyone wants a top notch team and sometimes the only way to get amazing people in less amazing roles is to bait and switch them. You are getting someone who is likely zero risk and will be highly successful in a lower role. And if you ever actually need someone in the higher level role you have someone who can do it.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#27

Post by stale2002 »

"You are a great candidate, and we would like you to interview with this other role. But this particular role is not a good fit"

Why not interview for this other role?

It sounds like people like you. They want to hire you. But they perhaps they want to hire you for a slightly different role. Why not consider this role?

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#28

Post by jwilliams »

If the companies are worth their salt, they should be giving (or willing to give) you detailed feedback. _Especially_ if you got to a face-to-face interview. If they don't, then I'd consider that a lucky miss.

First step would be to ask, at least, the 7 on-sites for feedback. If it's insufficient, ask for more. Explain that you're having trouble at the last hurdle and that their feedback will help. Take that feedback and integrate it in to your approach. Getting feedback can be difficult, especially when it's just you. Consider giving it to some friends and/or mentors to get a clearer view. Choose someone that can bring the most amount of objectivity.

Otherwise... Attend some meetups. Consider blogging and producing some content. Build a profile that projects where you want to be (you should consider, a little, what that might be). If you're passionate and visible in a domain, combined with good skills and experience, then you're gold to these organizations. Often they will come to you.

Also consider being proactive to companies that you want to work for. Engage and see if they have any jobs. Many roles get filled without a Job Description seeing the light of day. Part of doing the above should achieve that.

Finally, consider tackling the problem in a structured way. Interview for a job that's well within your capabilities. Apply for roles that stretch you. These give you a broader understanding on the needs out there in the market (and hopefully what you're capable of).

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#30

Post by rezashirazian »

I think your resume is probably more impressive than your ability to interview. Learning to be impressive on interviews is difficult. I would suggest trying out a less impressive resume so you don't lead into your interview with too much of a high standard.
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