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Ask HN: What subjects should be removed/replaced in school? With what?

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Re: Ask HN: What subjects should be removed/replaced in school? With what?

#21
post #20

One small change I'd like is to teach a lot of math from a more numerical approach. Learning to approximate sines, cosines, limits, derivatives, and integrals in university made me feel much more confident in my understanding of the concepts. An advantage of this approach is it still gives STEM bound students a good intro to core math, but allows all students to learn a bit of programming. It also teaches how to impl…

Are you taking about mental approximation or writing programs for approximation? Or did you switch between the two?

I'll say that knowing mental approximations for sines is a wonderful thing. And, come to think of it, writing something to do the same approximation as the calculator sounds good too. And then analyzing the error introduced by the two methods... So many fun tangents!

Re: Ask HN: What subjects should be removed/replaced in school? With what?

#22

After half penning comments a few times, Im just going make a top level one. This post talks as if the study of pedagogy doesn't exist and, as someone pretty interested in the field, it just pains me. There's a lot of progress in the field but to hear people in this tread talking about grading on a bell curve I can see why people outside of the education community might think there isn't (current [as in the past 50 y…

Look at a magazine stand, these are the things people actually care about. If you think of something people care about that isn't on the magazine stand, consider starting one and filling the niche.

Why is it that we would focus on all the things people do not actually care about, as opposed to the things they actually do? Let learning be a pull process, not a push process. You pull in the skills you need to do things well, you don't learn all the things you might need, only to discover you didn't need them.

Shoving information into peoples heads and hoping that it leads to utility somehow in the future is a long shot when compared to using utility itself to pull the required knowledge as needed, and you then have a 100 percent hit rate on the cache. You're never filling your cache up with junk.

Some exceptions to this exist, obviously, such as language, speech, writing, math up to algebra, some geometry, logic, ethics, hygiene, and success tactics such as delayed gratification, goal setting, teamwork, etc.

Those subjects have the largest amplification effect on other subjects. Some other subjects are better endpoints than starting points, and it would be great if the people that loved those subjects wouldn't try and pretend they were good amplification starting points.

The mastery learning you linked to seems to beat a dead horse? More profit can be had by giving up on some hard things and returning to them after you've tried learning things you weren't burnt out on yet. Some people will just always hate a certain subject. If you require 90 percent performance before you move on to the next thing, you lose the profit of task switching for freshness.

Also, this seems to unrelated to the point of better subjects. If teaching technology doubled in effectiveness overnight, you're still learning things you can't make money with and are unlikely to ever use, no matter how well you know it.

Re: Ask HN: What subjects should be removed/replaced in school? With what?

#23
post #9

> It is the tragedy of the commons that no educator wants to pay the price of seeing their curriculum reduced or replaced with something better. For them better doesn’t exist. I don't think this is correct. The issue is much more complicated. First, education is not really a tragedy of the commons, more like a tragedy of the anticommons [1]. I agree there's a time constraint to a curriculum. But that little hiccup is…

The workers comp example was to show that even very hard decisions can have numbers assigned to them for comparisons sake if you ask the right questions. Thus even if its hard to tell why goal setting is more valuable than calculating the volume of imaginary vases, it can be reasoned about.

Specialization is power. What profitable skill could students be learning that wouldn't have tons of side value? Creating, fixing, doing nearly anything that was worth paying for would pull the right skills into their brains and push out the useless ones.

If you need to learn to calculate the volume of a vase for an actual reason, with money on the line, you have a better chance of actually retaining the knowledge, and seeing the value in it. Autodidacts have a trick up their sleeve. Interest. Normal students can be interested as well, if they were learning things worth learning.

Re: Ask HN: What subjects should be removed/replaced in school? With what?

#24
post #20

One small change I'd like is to teach a lot of math from a more numerical approach. Learning to approximate sines, cosines, limits, derivatives, and integrals in university made me feel much more confident in my understanding of the concepts. An advantage of this approach is it still gives STEM bound students a good intro to core math, but allows all students to learn a bit of programming. It also teaches how to impl…

Are you taking about mental approximation or writing programs for approximation? Or did you switch between the two? I'll say that knowing mental approximations for sines is a wonderful thing. And, come to think of it, writing something to do the same approximation as the calculator sounds good too. And then analyzing the error introduced by the two methods... So many fun tangents!

I guess I was trying to advocate for somewhat orthogonal ideas.

On the one hand, learning how to approximate functions with arbitrary precision definitely solidifies an understanding of what those functions are doing.

On the other hand high school math classes are often taught quite algorithmically. Therefore, rather than tests and problem sets, what if the student's chief deliverable was a small python package that performed the algorithms for that lesson? This has a really good advantage of teach basic life skills of turning a specification or intention into a physical product. It also does not significantly impair students that need a strong math background going forward. Finally, makes life a little easier for teachers because some of their grading work could be automated.

Now these two approaches could be applied independently, but I think they would work well together, particularly because the numerical approximation programs generalize a bit better than symbolic ones.

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