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Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#21
post #14
post #12

Well since you asked. Blockchain is the world's worst database, created entirely to maintain the reputations of venture capital firms who injected hundreds of millions of dollars into a technology whose core defining insight was "You can improve on a Ponzi scam by making it self-organizing and distributed; that gets vastly more distribution, reduces the single point of failure, and makes it censorship-resistant." Tha…

Bitcoin allows you to buy all sorts of exotic drugs from strangers, safely and securely from your couch.

For certain definitions of safely and securely, yes.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you posted, Patrick. I think your post on Bitcoin was long overdue ;) I don't know much about Bitcoin, but this gives a lot of food for thought.

really? I read that post as "writing a ToDo app using the blockchain as your datastore versus a traditional database is bad". Well yeah, there are different tools for each job. If everything is a nail and you're only used to a hammer, then of course trying to use this new tool as a hammer will sound silly. I obviously can't predict the future use cases, but an example off the top of my head might be something like a…

Why is that particular use case solved better with blockchain than e.g. incrementing a counter in an actual database?

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#23
post #12

Well since you asked. Blockchain is the world's worst database, created entirely to maintain the reputations of venture capital firms who injected hundreds of millions of dollars into a technology whose core defining insight was "You can improve on a Ponzi scam by making it self-organizing and distributed; that gets vastly more distribution, reduces the single point of failure, and makes it censorship-resistant." Tha…

Two things:

1) It seems like the term "block chain" as used by block chain companies is pointing to what the bitcoin blockchain is but without the proof of work. So, a database which history could be cryptographically audited.

2) I don't think those are necessarily bad points for Bitcoin. Maybe it is run by speculators or gold diggers but in the end many people (including me and friends) have used/are using bitcoin for legitimate reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#24

As someone in finance, where blockchain gets brought up alot, this one is easy. Blockchain is the proverbial solution looking for a problem. As has been pointed out ad nauseam, the blockchain is often just a euphemism for database. And that's where the backlash comes from, someone says Blockchain for settlement, or blockchain for recording startup up option tracking, or blockchain for tracking, well anything physical…

I completely agree, it sounds like the forever present problem of wrong tool for the right job. However it offers the potential to approach problems in a fundamentally different manner. I find myself incredibly curious and fascinated with how it works - then immediately rejected once I see discussions on HN about the blockchain. According to your bio you've been programming for many years - is an apprehension towards…

To many people on HN, blockchain isn't new; many of us have gone through the incredibly curious and fascinated stage around 2011-2013 and are now in the cynical and grumpy stage. If you're curious about this stuff keep learning but HN and Reddit probably just aren't good places to do so.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#25
post #20
post #12

Well since you asked. Blockchain is the world's worst database, created entirely to maintain the reputations of venture capital firms who injected hundreds of millions of dollars into a technology whose core defining insight was "You can improve on a Ponzi scam by making it self-organizing and distributed; that gets vastly more distribution, reduces the single point of failure, and makes it censorship-resistant." Tha…

An addendum from the UX side: bitcoin is not usable by anyone who hasn't spent a lot of time learning about it. It basically requires users to understand what the blockchain is and the limitations of it, whereas other currencies don't require regular users to understand the backend machinery. It can't ever be more than a niche tool, because the general public isn't interested in learning backend machinery for currenc…

It can be as simple as scanning qr codes with your phone wallet.

Aaron Voisine has done an incredible job with breadwallet, highly recommended.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#26
post #12

Well since you asked. Blockchain is the world's worst database, created entirely to maintain the reputations of venture capital firms who injected hundreds of millions of dollars into a technology whose core defining insight was "You can improve on a Ponzi scam by making it self-organizing and distributed; that gets vastly more distribution, reduces the single point of failure, and makes it censorship-resistant." Tha…

The biggest challenge I notice in this community is a lack of imagination. At the risk of being critical of HN royalty, Patrick just showed that it's far easier to be snarky than imaginative.

Any implementation of a blockchain where a blockchain simply replaces a database is lazy at best, and most likely completely pointless. Almost all blockchain stories that make it on HN are financial implementations that fall in to this camp, and as such they are rightly called out as being pointless. Unfortunately the comments are a pile-on of negativity, rather than a discussion of possibilities.

The interesting work is being done in areas where things that weren't possible before, are now possible. This requires imagination and resolve.

My background is in ad tech, and I've recently had conversations with companies working on solving two big problems in large media buying agencies - bot-based fraud, and auditability of programmatic trading. These problems are being solved using the bitcoin blockchain.

I'm not invested in the success of these businesses, or bitcoin/blockchain at all - but through my experience they are solving real problems (ie. ad fraud is around a ~$5-10B problem every year for the large agency groups) in ways that weren't possible before.

So to answer the question about why the community is negative towards blockchain? The HN community self selects for a group of people who solve problems in the roughly the same ways, with roughly the same tools. It's not really a conducive environment for a technology that could solve problems in a new way with new tools. It then implements a voting system that only strengthens the community homogeneity. So once a technology like a blockchain is in the out group, it's unlikely to ever be in the in group.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#27
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you posted, Patrick. I think your post on Bitcoin was long overdue ;) I don't know much about Bitcoin, but this gives a lot of food for thought.

really? I read that post as "writing a ToDo app using the blockchain as your datastore versus a traditional database is bad". Well yeah, there are different tools for each job. If everything is a nail and you're only used to a hammer, then of course trying to use this new tool as a hammer will sound silly. I obviously can't predict the future use cases, but an example off the top of my head might be something like a…

As others have mentioned [0], blockchains pay a lot for working in a trustless environment. The real issue is that there's not actually a lot of trustless environments that need such a solution. And there's better solutions in trusting environments.

To take your example, a country issuing identification numbers does not have a trust issue. The people generally trust the government to correctly issue and record an ID number.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13420629

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#28
post #17

As I see it, Blockchain technology is based on some premises that are not easily achievable. This are the two I find most relevant: 1. A large user base (computational power) is needed to successfully run a blockchain backed product. If the network is small, a malicious attacker with enough resources could manipulate past transactions or prevent new ones (51% attack). 2. Blockchain was designed to be a trustless (no…

Bankchains solve #1 by not using mining; they use something like BFT (which is basically Paxos for liars) so that only 51% of the companies in the consortium need to be honest at any one time.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#29
Blockchain technology? Maybe there's something in the future but right now Bitcoin is mostly used as an illegal vehicle to get money out of China. Some 90% of bitcoin trades originate in China. A lot of people who are peddling Bitcoin are holding on to it and try to convince others to use it so their holdings grow. The whole thing became a scam. The other "alt coins" are even worse, Monero is pushed by drug dealers etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the community so negative towards blockchain technology?

#30
post #23
post #12

Well since you asked. Blockchain is the world's worst database, created entirely to maintain the reputations of venture capital firms who injected hundreds of millions of dollars into a technology whose core defining insight was "You can improve on a Ponzi scam by making it self-organizing and distributed; that gets vastly more distribution, reduces the single point of failure, and makes it censorship-resistant." Tha…

Two things: 1) It seems like the term "block chain" as used by block chain companies is pointing to what the bitcoin blockchain is but without the proof of work. So, a database which history could be cryptographically audited. 2) I don't think those are necessarily bad points for Bitcoin. Maybe it is run by speculators or gold diggers but in the end many people (including me and friends) have used/are using bitcoin f…

"So, a database which history could be cryptographically audited."

Doesn't git already meet that requirement?

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