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Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

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Re: Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

#21
post #5

san francisco hands down. hopefully will change in the future, but hasn't yet

In SF, with a good portfolio and the ability to demonstrate your coding skills well in an interview, you can expect to get a job w/in about 3 months. This will cost you between $5 and $8k (cost of living) and you will be able to take home anywhere from $53 - $80k/yr (after taxes and before cost of living.) I don't know how this compares to other options, but just thought I'd give you some numbers.

53$ is shockingly low for Bay Area, after taxes. 80K is also low... Hack Reactor bootcamp grads are generally pulling 100-125 straight out, so, what, 85 after taxes?

Re: Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

#23

Build something. This transcends geography. Show competency by building something that demonstrates your technical ability. Better yet, build 2 things. Be able to demo your projects, and talk at length about the technical challenges in building them. That said, your best best is always going to be small / medium sized companies. Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are mostly going to be looking for solid CS fundamentals…

> Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are mostly going to be looking for solid CS fundamentals in their interview

I gotta second the above statement. A software engineering job often has so many unqualified applicants that it's just not practical to give every applicant a courtesy phone call. In these cases, a CS degree requirement is a way to filter out the people who are spamming their resume; or the crazies who just don't understand the kind of experience that the job requires.

That being said, it doesn't hurt to couch-surf in Silicon valley for a week or two. There are a lot of (cough) "startups" that need dirt-cheap developers that you can meet at every single networking event. You'll have 2-3 years of putting up with stupid ideas that go belly up every few months, but as you build your network, you'll eventually find someone who values your skills and forgets that you don't have a pedigree.

Re: Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

#24
post #4

Best bet would be to just apply for jobs everywhere and move wherever you get the best offer

My friend in Houston is trying this right now but it's incredibly stressful. A lot of companies aren't interested because he's unsure whether he's even coming to their city, some are turned off because they assume he'll want relocation, not to mention it's emotionally trying for him to hop from city to city for interviews and not even know where he wants to settle.

Re: Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

#27
There's probably a general cultural or sociological alignment to such openness you could identify in an area but the best chances are likely where the demand simply outstrips the supply enough that companies will be more flexible in their hiring.

Personally, I have zero degrees and no formal education in ANYTHING, not to mention a general distaste for traditional classroom training in general, yet starting with a graphic design job that fell in my lap in 1998 (it's who you know...), I've simply developed my skills "organically" (?) and parlayed each position into the next, having worked as a web developer (at loosely-run non-profits and for very traditionally-structured government contractors), UX architect (at a very well-known company/domain name provider), UI developer (financial institution), and now as software engineer building web apps for a very narrow vertical market.

While my first "real" office job was Southern California (in an inland bedroom community 1 hour north of San Diego), the bulk of my career has spanned 2 geographic areas: Phoenix and Denver (mostly the suburbs, at that.) Relocating to both did entail factoring in the availability of relevant jobs but was more about what I wanted for my life at the time the decision was made.

It's highly unlikely I'd ever be a strong candidate for a Silicon Valley-type company or a startup, which is fine wth me since I'm a work-to-live type temperament and have never been the "work hard, play hard" type. But I also have a seemingly natural desire to be a good employee & coworker and like to be proud of the quality of work I do. Some of that might be a result of the "leadership development" that was unofficially required in my first job.

The foundations for my career are only based in teenage dabbling in software (coding BASIC on a TRS-80 in the early 90s, reverse engineering the HTML in webpages to build my own in the mid-90s) and a general technical bent overlaid with creative tendencies. Having a nearly insatiable thirst for knowledge probably helps too...

Re: Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

#28

Build something. This transcends geography. Show competency by building something that demonstrates your technical ability. Better yet, build 2 things. Be able to demo your projects, and talk at length about the technical challenges in building them. That said, your best best is always going to be small / medium sized companies. Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are mostly going to be looking for solid CS fundamentals…

This is the only answer. I'm self taught, but even after working with different software companies for years, side projects are always the thing that gets me my next role.

> This is the only answer. I'm self taught, but even after working with different software companies for years, side projects are always the thing that gets me my next role.

Under what section in your resume do you put your side projects? Is it under Work Experience?

Re: Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the only answer. I'm self taught, but even after working with different software companies for years, side projects are always the thing that gets me my next role.

> This is the only answer. I'm self taught, but even after working with different software companies for years, side projects are always the thing that gets me my next role. Under what section in your resume do you put your side projects? Is it under Work Experience?

I think a sociologist could write a thesis on the never ending argument of how a resume "should" look.

Anyway I put them under "projects," right next to a couple company projects. The projects section is structured very similarly to the "work" section.

Re: Ask HN: What’s the best city/state for self-taught web devs without a degree?

#30
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In SF, with a good portfolio and the ability to demonstrate your coding skills well in an interview, you can expect to get a job w/in about 3 months. This will cost you between $5 and $8k (cost of living) and you will be able to take home anywhere from $53 - $80k/yr (after taxes and before cost of living.) I don't know how this compares to other options, but just thought I'd give you some numbers.

53$ is shockingly low for Bay Area, after taxes. 80K is also low... Hack Reactor bootcamp grads are generally pulling 100-125 straight out, so, what, 85 after taxes?

Because it will be an entry-level position with low expectations. I'd never pay $125k to a self-taught engineer who will move at a snail's pace, and might need a lot of help from the team.

The $125k salary comes later once the engineer moves faster and doesn't need a lot of help.

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