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Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#21
post #12
post #6

No, front-end and back-end cultures are too different. Front-end people like things that are shiny and new, the latest framework in the latest browser and it's only got to last a year at the very most before it gets re-written again (or the company is bust). Back-end people like things that are proven and stable and don't care if it's a decade old, because they want something that will last another decade. If you try…

it is not about trust. Probe them. Ask them questions. You will know with an hour how deep their knowledge of frontend or backend goes.

Absolutely. There's a lot of value to be had in understanding everything from the browser down to the power supply into the rack. But no-one is equally good at all of it - I have more respect for people who know their strengths and play to them, while also knowing how they fit into a team, and the team is "full stack".

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#22
PHP, Java, and C will probably stay around as long as their isn't a huge shift in software development, e.g. by having AI doing the development for you.

JS as a backend is more of a joke, though. It has heartful followers, true. But it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table. I may be wrong (and happy to be corrected) but this was developed by people who learned the JS frontend stuff first and then didn't want to learn another language for the backend just as well. So they decided to make the language they already know available in the backend as well. But that's it.

Think about competitions in the backend/desktop area. For instance Go. It aims to combine the advantages you have in the most popular programming languages, while also providing stuff as core elements (e.g. packaging) that are only attached on top of other languages. Or coming from the other direction of the "cool" languages, it provides all the nice little modern features you know from other languages but also enables you to write and compile code as fast as the C codes of the ancients you always read about.

This is what real competition looks like. It provides something huge and new while also providing quality features you know from your current favorite language. If you don't bring something like that to the table people won't switch to you, at least not for serious projects. The advantage of already having educated developers on the market for the "old stuff" and having an infrastructure of libraries that solve most of the tasks at hand, is just too big to compete against without killer features.

And as I said, I may just not know the killer feature of server side JS, in which case it may be just a marketing blunder of the server JS people that can be corrected.

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#23
post #22

PHP, Java, and C will probably stay around as long as their isn't a huge shift in software development, e.g. by having AI doing the development for you. JS as a backend is more of a joke, though. It has heartful followers, true. But it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table. I may be wrong (and happy to be corrected) but this was developed by people who learned the JS frontend stuff first and then didn't want t…

The killer feature (and only reason I use it) is being able to render the same templates with the same data on the server (isomorphic/universal/whatever).

The result is a webpage that can do lightening-fast transitions client-side without breaking the back button.

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't compare PHP and Cobol. PHP is insanely popular (#3 globally) and will be for a while. Cobol isn't even in the top 20. http://pypl.github.io/PYPL.html

Searches on Google don't mean anything. COBOL programmers are from an era where programming wasn't just cut-and-paste-from-Stack Overflow.

Still, PHP is more popular than many "good" languages. It's not going anywhere.

Cobol has been dead for a long time. It's not popular even on HN.

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#25
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Searches on Google don't mean anything. COBOL programmers are from an era where programming wasn't just cut-and-paste-from-Stack Overflow.

Still, PHP is more popular than many "good" languages. It's not going anywhere. Cobol has been dead for a long time. It's not popular even on HN.

Neither is FORTRAN. But the computing world is a good deal bigger than web-based startups making CRUD applications.

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#26
I think JS will do quite well as JS becomes the back end scripting language over time (in place of lua for example.)

I don't see a bright future for ruby, I think it had some lead advantage, but RoR/opinionated-design really cut down the options for innovation with a Ruby based web dev group. It is interesting to see how diametrically opposed philosophy of Ruby the language is from the RoR community, it is like Ruby created a liberal blank space and RoR immediately filled it with conservative inflexibility.

Php is in an interesting position, but I think ecommerce systems catching up and offering more integrations will erode its position. It is very expensive to hire and retain loyalty on a php project, especially when it is of any complexity since anyone who will tolerate it and understands CS has plenty of other options.

If I had to say what will trouble JS, it is C++ as the VM. Too many groups will lack members that are able to look bellow the scripting layer when the inevitable low level problems occur.

Personally, I see the future as a war (and up/down stack integration) between JS/v8 and LLVM based languages. While other options will keep their markets for years, they have no solid positions for growth. Python will hold on as long as it has the academic position, but it needs a better relation with LLVM or clever curriculum builders will choose another language to teach using only one easy enough language up through compilers, with llvm-ir replacing assembly in a way that makes sense given the Arm/Intel war could go either way now.

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#27
post #22

PHP, Java, and C will probably stay around as long as their isn't a huge shift in software development, e.g. by having AI doing the development for you. JS as a backend is more of a joke, though. It has heartful followers, true. But it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table. I may be wrong (and happy to be corrected) but this was developed by people who learned the JS frontend stuff first and then didn't want t…

I have been doing some NodeJS development and it has been pretty miserable compared to something with a real type system.

Lately, I started converting everything over to Typescript and the situation has improved a lot. I think if Typescript becomes the main way that people program JS stuff then Node might have a chance of gaining some mind share.

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#28
post #22

PHP, Java, and C will probably stay around as long as their isn't a huge shift in software development, e.g. by having AI doing the development for you. JS as a backend is more of a joke, though. It has heartful followers, true. But it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table. I may be wrong (and happy to be corrected) but this was developed by people who learned the JS frontend stuff first and then didn't want t…

The killer feature (and only reason I use it) is being able to render the same templates with the same data on the server (isomorphic/universal/whatever). The result is a webpage that can do lightening-fast transitions client-side without breaking the back button.

For what it's worth, ReactJS.NET does server side rendering, so you can have a .NET backend.

https://reactjs.net/guides/server-side-rendering.html

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#29
post #22

PHP, Java, and C will probably stay around as long as their isn't a huge shift in software development, e.g. by having AI doing the development for you. JS as a backend is more of a joke, though. It has heartful followers, true. But it doesn't bring anything valuable to the table. I may be wrong (and happy to be corrected) but this was developed by people who learned the JS frontend stuff first and then didn't want t…

The killer feature (and only reason I use it) is being able to render the same templates with the same data on the server (isomorphic/universal/whatever). The result is a webpage that can do lightening-fast transitions client-side without breaking the back button.

That part of the web workflow just doesn't seem big enough to warrant all the other parts that are missing in the NodeJS ecosystem. In practice if those things are important enough there's a variety of template languages that are ubiquitous.

Re: Ask HN: Are there and will there be a lot of JavaScript backend developer jobs?

#30
post #15
post #6

No, front-end and back-end cultures are too different. Front-end people like things that are shiny and new, the latest framework in the latest browser and it's only got to last a year at the very most before it gets re-written again (or the company is bust). Back-end people like things that are proven and stable and don't care if it's a decade old, because they want something that will last another decade. If you try…

Go is not a decade old. And backend guys like it as well. Django is not that stable either and backend guys like it as well.

Django is the most stable framework I have seen without falling into obsolescence. There are breaking changes but they are easily manageable and thoroughly documented.
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