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Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

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Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#21

Post by danso »

biot wrote: post #14
danso wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to be forgotten is not a global right. OP could be from a country where courts have not made that ruling.

I'm speaking more to the ethics than the legal technicalities.

I wouldn't call it a technicality. It's a very difficult issue that could have far-reaching effects on technology and information systems. Currently, many media outlets and Google choose to publish and link to copious amounts of disturbing information and images regarding the Tiananmen Square protests, despite the government of the world's most populous country arguing it to be taboo. I doubt those invested in the issue think that publishing on the topic involves mere legal technicalities.

That said, the EU's right to be forgotten applies to search engines. Not to anyone else. That's why, as someone posted elsewhere, the BBC is able to publish a list of links that have been blacklisted by Google because of the ruling.

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#22

Post by extra88 »

kuschku wrote: post #15
pitaj wrote: post #11

Honestly, I don't understand how anybody can honestly think that there can or should be a "right to be forgotten." These laws are an abomination of freedom of information and are incredibly naive.

Let me just publish articles full of libel and lies claiming you distribute child porn in a country without libel laws. Let’s see what you do when the first result in Google for your name is such lies. Or when things you did in your childhood are all Google results about you, and might make you fail to get a job. The whole point of the Right to be Forgotten is to solve such issues which can’t be solved otherwise.

There are already libel laws to address lies much more thoroughly than making Google's job harder.

So-called right to be forgotten laws are as futile as DRM. I believe culturally we will adapt to the availability of this information. We can change our opinions about whether evidence of poor choices a long time ago means a candidate would be a poor hire. But the information still being available allows us to make more informed choices because maybe those poor choices a long time ago, along with more recent information, is relevant. The candidate knows this evidence exists and can contextualize it and/or compensate for it with evidence of better, more recent choices.

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#23

Post by unfunco »

pitaj wrote: post #11

Honestly, I don't understand how anybody can honestly think that there can or should be a "right to be forgotten." These laws are an abomination of freedom of information and are incredibly naive.

I thought this way originally, but in the United Kingdom over the past few years there has been Operation Yewtree, which has in multiple instances called out a well known figure as being a child-molester, only to have to retract due to incorrectness (or correctness, and lack of evidence), and it has ruined a few careers.

I think the Internet should be able to retain veritable truth (and obvious satire) only, if there's clear evidence that something on the Internet is untrue and not clearly satire, then it should be possible to remove that information because it is potentially personally damaging.

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#24

Post by Retr0spectrum »

extra88 wrote: post #22
kuschku wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me just publish articles full of libel and lies claiming you distribute child porn in a country without libel laws. Let’s see what you do when the first result in Google for your name is such lies. Or when things you did in your childhood are all Google results about you, and might make you fail to get a job. The whole point of the Right to be Forgotten is to solve such issues which can’t be solved otherwise.

There are already libel laws to address lies much more thoroughly than making Google's job harder. So-called right to be forgotten laws are as futile as DRM. I believe culturally we will adapt to the availability of this information. We can change our opinions about whether evidence of poor choices a long time ago means a candidate would be a poor hire. But the information still being available allows us to make more…

> in a country without libel laws.

It may be slightly futile, but I do believe it's a step in the right direction.

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#25

Post by hobs »

biot wrote: post #14
danso wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to be forgotten is not a global right. OP could be from a country where courts have not made that ruling.

I'm speaking more to the ethics than the legal technicalities.

There are definitely reasons to support hiding information, but the simple act of it being hidden does not make it immoral if you bring it to light.

It is trivial to form the moral argument for the opposite argument: say I am a corporation (for instance DOW Chemical) and I have a right of personhood in my country, remove negative articles about me from the internet.

If a judge orders it Google will do it, they dont make a moral argument back to a court order(generally), and at that point you have taken critical information away from the greater public (say, that the corp is poisoning people.)

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#26

Post by matt4077 »

Retr0spectrum wrote: post #9

Please use the data that you gather responsibly. There are some people who abuse the system (who I hope you identify), and also some people who really should have the right to be forgotten. As far as I can tell, using a US based VPN/proxy does not censor results - at least, it does not show the message. Therefore, you just need to cross-reference the results from different geographic regions. However, it will be diff…

> Once you find a "suspicious" result, I guess you could try searching direct quotes from the article

I believe google only removes the results from searches for the specific name. The page can still show up if you search for something else.

Other than that: +1 for your request for responsibility. I disagree with the court ruling, but having the right to publish some information doesn't always mean it's a good idea.

Google has details on a few specific requests. They include "high-ranking corrupt politician" (not removed) as well as "stalking victim's home address" (removed).

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#27

Post by pbhjpbhj »

9NRtKyP4 wrote: post #10
robryk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E.g. BBC publishes/used to publish the list of their pages that were removed from Google search results for this reason: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/1d765aa8-600b-4f... Not sure if there's any more recent version of that page.

There is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/8f2dd88f-db8a-46...

That's really interesting that they publish that information.

The top of the list is http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6965657.stm; presumably any of the people mentioned, including in the comments, might be responsible for the right-to-be-forgotten request to Google.

What's more curious, to me, is that several of the BBC's list are references to a series of articles on 3 students, eg http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3500850.stm.

Now if you Google any of those 3 students, https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Abbc.co.uk+"nikki+ho... then that page, that BBC say is hidden in Google SERPs, appears?? Did someone mess up. Google does say "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe.", however.

Similarly, this page http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4747988.stm is listed on that BBC page, but searching the main name and "BBC" brings up that same page as the first result; again the "Some results may have been removed [...]" text is given.

Bit weird?

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#28

Post by existencebox »

elpocko wrote: post #20
pitaj wrote: post #11

Honestly, I don't understand how anybody can honestly think that there can or should be a "right to be forgotten." These laws are an abomination of freedom of information and are incredibly naive.

Before the Internet, people eventually forgot what mistakes you made in the past. If there were records, not everyone had access to them and they eventually expired. Don't you see the problem when every mistake you ever made, or even wrongfully made accusations against you, can be found by anyone, indefinitely, by simply entering your name into a search engine? Let's say there is a nude picture of you on the Internet…

The ex-classics-major in the audience would like to beg to differ. Would you like to know about the many foibles of graeco-roman politicians, writers and soldiers? Because I can tell you things they would likely LOVE to be forgotten now (e.g. any of Catullus's poems regarding his opinions on plagiarism by his peers, and the involvement of rectally delivered "spiky fruit" remediation.)

I think it's pretty black and white, the "right to be forgotten" is a complete and utter absurd slight against the fundamental concept of a cultural history. Such a right stands against tens of thousands of years of recorded social ephemera, which until this affront was generally seen as "quite an accomplishment." (for humanity)

And to make what should be an obvious point, I do not say this as someone without skeletons in my closet. I don't get to live those down, or assert someone "forget"; they are actions I took and they are now part of me, it's for me to demonstrate that I should no longer be judged by them.

(I never thought of all my posts one defending history as paramount to speech and/or accepting personal responsibility would be the one to get downvoted this hard, if I said something else stupid/illogical please at least let me know, because I'm both curious and entertained)

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#29

Post by pokoleo »

You're looking for Lumen[0] (formerly, Chilling Effects)

From Wikipedia[1]:

> The archive got a boost when Google began submitting its notices in 2002. Google began to do so in response to the publicity generated when the Church of Scientology convinced Google to remove references and links to an anti-Scientology web site, Operation Clambake, in April 2002.

[0] https://lumendatabase.org/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(website)

Re: Ask HN: How to find results removed from Google under 'right to be forgotten'?

#30

Post by stephengillie »

ch215 wrote: post #13

To clarify, I want to shine a light on results wrongly removed: cases where freedom of expression, and the public interest in remembering, outweighs the right to be forgotten.

So, articles where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
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