Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#21

Post by koliber » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:04 AM UTC

I find that feedback is important, but there are better ways of doing it than annual performance reviews. We need feedback because without it, we have trouble objectively gauging how well we are doing.

To start, doing a performance review once a year leaves huge gaps in feedback. Feedback needs to be immediate. Telling someone that they did something great or sub-optimal 11 months ago is useless.

Second, everyone needs feedback. Feedback should not only flow from managers to employees. I would argue that managers need feedback even more than employees. Managers needs to know what is going on in their organization. The are usually well aware of the core topics (sales if you're sales manager, state of code if you're managing developers). However, good feedback should be about everything, including how people feel, what else is going well or not too well, if there is anything that they could suggest for improvement, or if anything is blocking their progress.

Thirdly, feedback should not only be a one way process. All good feedback should be a start of a conversation. People will listen to feedback better if it is presented as part of a two-way communication process.

I am currently working with 15Five.com to build a better feedback platform and to address the shortcomings of annual feedback systems.

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#22

Post by throwaway3139 » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:48 AM UTC

I'm working at a publicly traded company for the last few years. It is a disaster in terms of policy and procedures you'd expect at a Big Corp Inc.

It sucks not to get the feedback because I have no clear indicator if what I'm doing is good or bad. In terms of pay and bonus I would assume that I'md oing a great job because it keeps going up.

I note that the rest of the group I'm in have similar concerns.

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#23

Post by mathattack » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:50 AM UTC

Most great people I've seen have had great mentors guide them along the way.

Very few great tennis players do it without a coach. Same with piano. And chess. Why should programming or leadership be so different?

This doesn't mean feedback is easy to give or receive, or that everyone listens.

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#24

Post by bind » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:11 PM UTC

joshyeager wrote: post #7

ali_ibrahim wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your insights! I generally agree that feedback is important. Theoretically people should follow and gain from it. I started pleasantfish.com, a skills feedback platform where people could get anonymous feedback from their current and previous colleagues about their skills and qualities. But i generally saw people are either not interested in getting them reviewed much and even if they get feedback they are…

Oh, ok. I was mostly talking about how an individual can get maximum benefit from feedback. One of the biggest sources of growth for me has been actively engaging and acting on the feedback I receive. For more on that, I strongly recommend Thanks for the Feedback by Sheila Heen. You're right that it's hard to get others to learn from feedback if they don't actively work at it. You can make your feedback easier to und…

Does "don't add your 2 cents" [1] contradict what you said?

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12156234

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#25

Post by 10921809211 » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:20 PM UTC

joshyeager wrote: post #7

ali_ibrahim wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your insights! I generally agree that feedback is important. Theoretically people should follow and gain from it. I started pleasantfish.com, a skills feedback platform where people could get anonymous feedback from their current and previous colleagues about their skills and qualities. But i generally saw people are either not interested in getting them reviewed much and even if they get feedback they are…

Oh, ok. I was mostly talking about how an individual can get maximum benefit from feedback. One of the biggest sources of growth for me has been actively engaging and acting on the feedback I receive. For more on that, I strongly recommend Thanks for the Feedback by Sheila Heen. You're right that it's hard to get others to learn from feedback if they don't actively work at it. You can make your feedback easier to und…

Where "grow" means "behave like the manager thinks is beneficial for the company".

http://yosefk.com/blog/people-can-read-their-managers-mind.h...

Probably better than "Thanks for the Feedback" by Sheila Heen.

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#26

Post by asadjb » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:21 PM UTC

wsc981 wrote: post #3

I am not sure. Perhaps for people that want to grow their roles in organisations, it's important. As a freelancer, I am happy to live without this ritual. In the past, before I became freelancer, I dreaded these reviews, as I suspected often these performance reviews could be politically charged and not necessarily deal with my performance (for example a manager might tell me I need to improve some aspects for a rais…

Having both freelanced and currently working full time, I feel that feedback is a significant benefit of working full time. As joshyeager says in this thread, "Yes, feedback is essential for growth. Without it, you can't grow any farther or faster than your own ability to evaluate yourself and decide how to improve.", and I agree with this.

This is something that is just missing when you are working by yourself as a freelancer. I could be a good coder, but crappy co-worker and I'd never know that if I just work by-my-self. Personally, I'm an OK programmer. But I used to be crap at teaching people. I freelanced for almost 7 years before I joined my first programming gig, and this is one of the first things I learned. Without feedback from my colleagues, I would never even have found out about it, unless I had gone out of my way to get myself involved in teaching.

And the way I look at it, feedback from your co-workers doesn't just improve you as an employee, it usually helps you grow as a person as well, and fix some error of your personality or character. For me, improving the way I try to teach things to my peers made me a better programmer, and [plug]helped me a lot while I was writing my book (https://www.amazon.com/Django-Project-Blueprints-Jibran-Ahme....

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#27

Post by denzell » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:32 PM UTC

Would you like somebody to tell you if you smell?

Same thing.

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#28

Post by jaimebuelta » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

mikekchar wrote: post #20

I taught in a high school for 5 years. I learned one very important thing: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I only noticed after that experience that in my previous 25 years as a programmer the vast majority of people ignored my advice (even when they asked for it!) Generally speaking, I've found that people have a preconceived notion of an answer when they solicit feedback for something. Th…

This.

Feedback too often falls into the "I need to say something not great/bad, so we keep improving", instead of listening when someone asks for support.

People performs better when confident their contribution is important and are confortable asking for help when needed.

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#29

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

joshyeager wrote: post #2

Yes, feedback is essential for growth. Without it, you can't grow any farther or faster than your own ability to evaluate yourself and decide how to improve. Annual performance reviews aren't a good feedback tool. They are much too slow, and usually also too big and generalized. What you really need is fast specific feedback (within a week, focused on one event, action-focused). With that said, if you want to grow, d…

Honest feedback is important for growth, yes, but be ultra skeptical of peoples motives. Your manager may be downplaying your contributions to avoid having to give you a raise or to discourage you from seeking employment elsewhere.

Re: Ask HN: Do we really need performance feedback?

#30

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 4:19 PM UTC

ali_ibrahim wrote: post #9

drakonka wrote: post #8

Feedback from my direct managers is fairly important for me. Anonymous feedback from some peers helps with that as it gives the manager an idea of what working with me is like to my coworkers. If I'm doing my job well I want to know about it because it reminds me not to doubt myself and stay on course. If I need to do something different I want to know about it early so that I can course-correct before it becomes a p…

I have a rhetorical question here. When you say that anonymous feedback gives manager the idea of what working with me is like to my coworkers, do you think this information is useful for and should actually be allowed to share with potential employers and recruiting managers? Shouldn't they have a right to this information? For example: when a candidate mentions "references" on his resume, they are always meant to g…

Unsolicitated feedback: Between people seeking revenge for real or perceived slights, people who don't believe the feedback is fair, lawsuits over same, the site would drown.

Plus who would sign up to enable others to have anonymous feedback about them? If you are really good you would get hired without it, so it would be a sign that, at most, the person is a solid B-player and likely a C player. Would you hire such a person?