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Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

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Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#21

Post by _lce0 »

meteor wrote: post #6
sheldor wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that. If it's some "policy" and not something objective you will sound clueless. Many people just sit in corporate environments waiting for the clock to hit 6, and do nothing until they leave. You don't want this kind of behavior. In case his work is time sensitive, it's a different problem.

That's the challenge I am facing. We are very flexible with the timings. It usually works for us. We seldom find people misusing this freedom. But then, once in a while we come across this situation. I am not sure asking the person to stretch a little more will help the coarse. I want him to be motivated intrinsically.

> I want him to be motivated intrinsically.

Have you thought that maybe leaving early is what motivates him?

Motivation is way more effective when it's something from inside (from the person) rather that from an outside stimuli (ie: a raise)

You need to understand what are his needs (what call him to action) in order to provide an environment that allows him to thrive

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#22

Post by meteor »

fian wrote: post #19
meteor wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy isn't working 8 hours a day and we don't expect him to work 8 hours a day. I don't mind when person finishes his task in couple of hours and leaves the office. But, I am concerned when a person calls it a day after working for 4-5 hours without completing his task. 'Flexible timings' shouldn't translate to 'Flexible work'.

It sounds like the issue to less to do with the hours worked and more to do with timely delivery. Does this person know what the are expected to deliver on any given day/week/month? If not, they may think they are delivering acceptable outcomes. Can you set clear weekly targets for this person to achieve?

Usually, the tasks we have takes weeks or sometimes months to achieve. I think the best approach would be to break down these tasks and track them on weekly/daily basis.

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#23

Post by sjs382 »

fringedgentian wrote: post #18

If I am not not their supervisor and they are not specifically impacting my ability to get my own work done, I would mind my own business. Because it is thankfully not any part of my job description to monitor the time my coworkers spend in office.

This. A million times, this.

You aren't aware of what they have going on, who in management they have discussed his with, nor what accommodations have been made for them via management. And they shouldn't have to discuss it with you unless they choose to.

If it's affecting your ability to work (beyond the action itself making you cranky and anxious), then bring it up to your supervisor, and make sure it gets followed up on.

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#24

Post by imauld »

This breaks down in to 2 situations:

- They are coming in late and leaving early and completing all their assigned tasks. There is no problem.

- They are coming in late and leaving early and not completing their tasks. This requires at the very least a discussion about meeting the goals set for this employee and what it means to complete them. If you have a formal discussion with the employee about their goals and how they are not meeting them and they do not improve then you have a case to remove them.

I suppose there are some smaller inconveniences that go along with someone not being around but they can be pretty easily resolved.

- They should be easily reachable at the very least from 9-5 regardless of the time they actually spend at the office. No one should be stuck waiting on them for an answer to something.

- Other employees may doing an unfair share of tasks that crop up during the day. If an unexpected task comes down from on high or from a client or whatever you usually task someone handy with with it. If this employee is never around they will likely never be tasked with something like this. Just remember to keep them in mind for things like this and shoot them an email/text to inform them.

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#25

Post by rkangel »

Approach the problem not in terms of the hours they are working but in terms of the outcomes (whether that's not completing tasks, or lack of availability to clients, or something else).

For example, if they aren't delivering what they should: Have the conversation with them, explaining that they aren't completing the work they should be. They need to do something about this and one solution might be to spend more time it.

Note that this is also the early stage of what in the UK would be the normal process of dealing with under-performing employees, that might eventually result in termination.

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#27

Post by forgottenpass »

meteor wrote: post #6
sheldor wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that. If it's some "policy" and not something objective you will sound clueless. Many people just sit in corporate environments waiting for the clock to hit 6, and do nothing until they leave. You don't want this kind of behavior. In case his work is time sensitive, it's a different problem.

That's the challenge I am facing. We are very flexible with the timings. It usually works for us. We seldom find people misusing this freedom. But then, once in a while we come across this situation. I am not sure asking the person to stretch a little more will help the coarse. I want him to be motivated intrinsically.

We seldom find people misusing this freedom.

Then you need to clearly communicate expectations. You said elsewhere that you don't expect a full 8 hours, but are unhappy with 4-5. What is the quantity of work you want done? And it can't just be accomplishing tasks on deadline, because your scheduling process is based on a certain number of man hours per week.

I want him to be motivated intrinsically.

Intrinsically? OK, how much of the company does he own?

None? LOL. The biggest con perpetrated against programmers is that they can be made to care so much about something that isn't theirs for reasons that aren't money. If this guy is outside of that, it's a more healthy mental state to have about a job. So what do you offer that another employer won't do the same/better on?

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#28

Post by [deleted] »

meteor wrote: post #16
jasonkester wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still unclear: Is the guy working 8 hour days or not? And now extra unclarity: If you are flexible and have no expectations for how many hours comprise a day, how is it possible that one could "leave early?" If you've handwaved like this to the employee, it shouldn't come as a surprise that his definition of "no norms, flexible" might differ to yours. Give him an expectation, and maybe he'll meet it.

This guy isn't working 8 hours a day and we don't expect him to work 8 hours a day. I don't mind when person finishes his task in couple of hours and leaves the office. But, I am concerned when a person calls it a day after working for 4-5 hours without completing his task. 'Flexible timings' shouldn't translate to 'Flexible work'.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#29

Post by TEMPsmalllab »

* Root cause the issue, this might be just result of motivation issues.(salary, recognition, stress, office politics, not challenging work and etc.I mean you name it.) * Try to find this was the case all the time or just started recently. * Use the scrum(in a micro management way?), let him answer three questions everyday.

Are you his manager or just team member? If you are a team member which means you might also have a problem which appears this way, this guy working hours beside.

Re: Ask HN: How will you handle a team member who always comes late and leaves early?

#30

Post by toyg »

meteor wrote: post #22
fian wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the issue to less to do with the hours worked and more to do with timely delivery. Does this person know what the are expected to deliver on any given day/week/month? If not, they may think they are delivering acceptable outcomes. Can you set clear weekly targets for this person to achieve?

Usually, the tasks we have takes weeks or sometimes months to achieve. I think the best approach would be to break down these tasks and track them on weekly/daily basis.

I would support that, but weekly only. Daily meetings are typical micromanagement and waste more time and morale than they gain.

Just have a frank chat on the lines of "dude, i hate to say this but we are not delivering. We have to change our ways a bit. Here's a list of things I need in the next two months: you have to nail one each week. I don't care which one, just give me one each week. I ask you because I trust you can do it, I think you have more potential than others. We just have to get something to show, y'know? If that doesn't happen they'll come down on me and make life hard for everyone; but if we show we're running full speed, we become heroes and will have larger buckets when money rains." For extra safety, give him a list 30% to 50% longer than necessary, and review it with him right there to let him drop a few of the scariest items and still have enough to cover the planned timestamp. He will feel a bit more involved in choosing his own destiny.

There is a chance the guy will bolt for good shortly after: this would mean he hated the place already, good riddance. If he stays on and improves his ways, the challenge is on you to keep finding realistic week-long targets, or you can relax it a bit and have two or three-weeks targets instead.

Extra-bonus: have this meeting on Tuesday morning, starting the system the following week. On monday he will hate you, from Wednesday on his morale will suffer; and it gives him enough time to clear any competing interest (either professional or private).

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