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Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

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Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#191

Post by Dewie »

free2rhyme214 wrote: post #73

Hi Poster, No you're not. There are no positive or negative events in life. All events are neutral. It is within your power to see them as positive. Reality doesn't care about your "destiny." So besides my airy fairy comment above what I mean is when something bad happens you have to take massive action to get the result you want. So when young founders make DUMB decisions that screw you over you apply to 40-60 jobs…

I don't think he was looking for that kind of advice, Tony. But maybe it will help.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#192

Post by poof131 »

georgespencer wrote: post #91
sheetjs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyond "a YC startup" so that none of us find ourselves in your shoes. Two other reasons for considering revealing the name: 1) a casual bystander might see this and conclude that all YC companies behave in this way, which hurts the other companies. 2) PG and other partners at YC read HN, and there's a good chance that action can be taken if they know who is inv…

"action can be taken" Come on. They didn't do anything wrong. They withdrew an offer of employment. 1. It could be performance related, and they just don't want to tell OP, 2. They realised quickly -- shock horror, things change quickly in startups -- that actually they don't need X guy they need Y guy. These things happen. In situations like this you can fire well: give explicit reasons, make sure the person knows y…

They withdrew an offer of employment.

They didn't withdraw an offer, they terminated someone who had accepted and was actively working for the company.

They didn't do anything wrong.

Yes, they did. Is it okay to let the OP go quickly because they made a mistake: no resources to deal with visa issues, wrong domain expertise, etc? Yes. Is it okay to do this without compensation, especially after rescinding other offers, working his personal network, etc? No!

The OP din't just do some code, he worked his professional network and went out on a limb for this startup. They screwed him, probably for the right reasons, but they need to admit the mistake and make the OP right.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#193

Post by king_jester »

balls187 wrote: post #126

Hypothetical to the larger HN community: If you got accepted a job offer, and within 2 weeks got a job offer for more money, and at your dream company, would you feel obligated to stay with your initial decision? If you made the rational (but arguably unethical choice), do you think your reputation should be tarnished, and future employers think hard before extending an offer? I know it's not the exact situation as t…

The answer is yes, you should absolutely switch to the dream job/company. Particularly if where you work is at will, like it is in much of the US. The same things that apply to an individual apply to a company: other candidates interviewed may still be available, you are leaving before becoming a valuable part of the company and are difficult to replace, not taking offer you prefer may leave sour grapes, etc. No one should be tarnished in such a situation. A worker has every right to the best deal and working environment possible, even if that environment is elsewhere.

I would even argue that any time your dream job makes an offer, you should feel free to leave your current job regardless of status, loyalty, and so on.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#194

Post by yaur »

davelnewton wrote: post #145
yaur wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would talk to a lawyer before doing this... see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference

I don't see how this applies.

Assuming that the OP has a reasonably standard employment agreement, he may well be breaking it by contacting their investors (there is the tort). Assuming that he doesn't want the job back, why would he contact them other than to disrupt the relationship between YC and his former employer? IANAL, but the basic elements seem like they are there and I wouldn't even consider doing something like this without getting legal advice first.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#195

Post by guybrushT »

davemel37 wrote: post #185
sheetjs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyond "a YC startup" so that none of us find ourselves in your shoes. Two other reasons for considering revealing the name: 1) a casual bystander might see this and conclude that all YC companies behave in this way, which hurts the other companies. 2) PG and other partners at YC read HN, and there's a good chance that action can be taken if they know who is inv…

Even if you take these into consideration, a more appropriate reaction would be to say, "if you are currently in talks with a YC company for employment, or were hired in the last few weeks, drop me a line with the name of the company and I'll reply privately to you with a yes or no." Same goes for PG or YC Partners, just say, "if you drop me a line saying you want to deal with this, contact me and we can discuss it a…

"if you are currently in talks with a YC company for employment, or were hired in the last few weeks, drop me a line with the name of the company and I'll reply privately to you with a yes or no."

Yes... and Yes.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#196

Post by reinhardt »

patio11 wrote: post #169
guybrushT wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You articulated the situation (and my thinking) very well. Any thoughts on what future early employees could do to protect themselves?

If somebody for some reason managed to convince me to come onboard as an employee, and I was asked nicely to leave after two weeks, I would begin the conversation with "That is unfortunate and unexpected, as I was looking forward to working with you guys. We're all businessmen here, so we know that there are certain reasonable expectations which one has with regards to employment offers. I shouldn't be telling you an…

Good luck convincing them to shell out 60K for two weeks. If they could afford it, they'd probably could afford throwing 30K more and keeping him for a year.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#197

Post by potatolicious »

tonyhb wrote: post #164
troebr wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of visa could you qualify for as a COO?

It's not necessarily based on your title. When I went through the process, it boils down to: - Do you have a degree, and experience? Great. Is someone willing to advertise the job to American citizens for a month or so, interview good potential candidates beforehand, and still want you? Even better. Now, just wait for next year's allocation of visa's and you might grab one on the day they're released. Then, wait betw…

> "Is someone willing to advertise the job to American citizens for a month or so, interview good potential candidates beforehand, and still want you?"

You're confusing H-1B visas with green card applications.

This isn't relevant to work visas, only relevant to permanent residency applications. The H-1B visa does not require exhausting locals before hiring foreigners, all it needs is to demonstrate competence and education.

Ditto the waiting years part, work visas do not take years, permanent residency permits do.

The H-1B visa is very, very easy to apply so long as the candidate has at least a recognized bachelor's degree. The real downside to H-1B is that it's subject to annual caps, and therefore timing is inconvenient. The visas are valid starting October of that year, but must be applied for before the quota is exhausted. This historically is somewhere between April and August of that year.

Not to mention once you have it the visa is portable between employers with none of the above restrictions. It's definitely not ideal, but working in the US is not nearly as hard as you're making it out to be.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#198

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

dreamweapon wrote: post #98
toomuchtodo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say you did the right thing in not saying what the startup was — it isn't wise to look like a bridge-burner when you're looking for work. Today I learned that its considered "bridge burning" to communicate a company's terrible ethics in public.

In reality it isn't of course. But appearances do matter, and to many people it can look like it was bridge burning, sour grapes, or otherwise vindictive. So it's something that should be considered very cautiously.

I'll just point out the unspoken bias here - it's fine for powerful people to abuse their power, and less powerful people aren't allowed to complain because it might be seen as someone challenging the power balance at a level they shouldn't aspire to.

In other relationships, 'Shut up and know your place' is the textbook definition of victim shaming in abusive situations.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#199

Post by guybrushT »

poof131 wrote: post #192
georgespencer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"action can be taken" Come on. They didn't do anything wrong. They withdrew an offer of employment. 1. It could be performance related, and they just don't want to tell OP, 2. They realised quickly -- shock horror, things change quickly in startups -- that actually they don't need X guy they need Y guy. These things happen. In situations like this you can fire well: give explicit reasons, make sure the person knows y…

They withdrew an offer of employment. They didn't withdraw an offer, they terminated someone who had accepted and was actively working for the company. They didn't do anything wrong. Yes, they did. Is it okay to let the OP go quickly because they made a mistake: no resources to deal with visa issues, wrong domain expertise, etc? Yes. Is it okay to do this without compensation, especially after rescinding other offers…

he worked his professional network and went out on a limb for this startup.

Some in my network (former consulting clients and business friends) ended up buying the service. So the company benefited in a tangible way (real $'s). I worked as if this was "my company". So yeah, I do feel screwed for the reasons you say and more...

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