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Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#191

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

pg wrote: post #152
7Figures2Commas wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd look for a startup with very determined founders who are working on a problem that grew organically out of their own experiences. I'd go slightly further than that: look for founders who are working on a problem that grew organically out of their own experiences in an industry in which they have real domain expertise . A lot of today's startups are doomed to fail because the founders are trying to "disrupt" ind…

We like domain expertise, but empirically it's not critical. The Airbnbs knew zero about the hospitality industry when they started. They just knew they'd had a life-changing experience when they rented out airbeds on their floor during a conference. The Stripes didn't know anything about payments before they started Stripe, except what any hacker who'd tried to process payments before Stripe did (that existing optio…

> We like domain expertise, but empirically it's not critical.

That's quite a statement. Companies like AirBnB are exceptions, not rules. If you look at most of the top tech IPOs in 2013, which is as legitimate a way as any of identifying companies that have actually delivered liquidity to employees, there's domain expertise everywhere. Examples:

Veeva - founder was previously at salesforce.com, PeopleSoft, IBM

Marketo - founders hailed from Epiphany

FireEye - founded by a former Sun Microsystems engineer

Zulily - founded by Blue Nile execs

Tableau Software - founded by university researchers who specialized in data visualization

Rocket Fuel - founders all worked in ads at Yahoo

RingCentral - founder previously sold a software communications company to Motorola

Pretending that you can spot the next Mark Zuckerberg or Brian Chesky is a fool's errand if you're a prospective startup employee. Domain expertise doesn't guarantee success, but it is more likely to minimize certain risks, particularly those around market fit and sales.

> It's rare for a startup to succeed without making money for the employees though.

A founder who owns 4% of a $1 billion company gets a $40 million pay day when his company goes public. And chances are he's going to be receiving more equity if he's still a member of the management team. An employee who owns .01% of a $1 billion company gets a $100,000 bonus when his company goes public. Even if you own .1%, you won't net $1 million after taxes. This is not the type of "making money" many early startup employees are after.

Simply put, the idea that owning a smaller piece of a bigger pie is better than owning a bigger piece of a smaller pie doesn't stand up to scrutiny in Silicon Valley because most startups don't go public at billion-dollar valuations and the vast majority of M&A deals are under $50 million. The odds that you are going to work at Facebook in 2006 or AirBnB in 2009 are not very high.

Heck, the odds are that you won't even get an exit, so why not work for (or with) somebody who isn't figuring things out for the first time?

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#192

Post by seestheday »

stcredzero wrote: post #178
seestheday wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quote: You can remove the MBA, and it generalizes just fine. agreed - I've worked for MBA's and non MBA's. In my small sample the MBA's have actually been less entitled, but I also know that the multiple of anecdote != evidence

The actual quote is, "The plural of anecdote is evidence." http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-fox-knows/ - search for "plural of anecdote" Yup, so much for "stuff you read on the Internet" being the basis of rigorous, insightful analysis. Sturgeon's Law applies.

Thanks - I still like the saying, though I'm not sure how to correct it now.

To me multiple anecdotes signify a small uncontrolled, non random sample set, that you really shouldn't use to draw conclusions.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#193

Post by the_watcher »

Sounds like you are a great candidate to start something yourself, and implement all the things you remember about optimal management. Is there a reason you haven't tried to start something yourself (just to be clear, I'm assuming that as a developer, you have made enough money to pay off any unsecured debt, and have the option of freelancing for side income if necessary).

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#194

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

mgkimsal wrote: post #110
cleaver wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the first day of my first consulting gig, as I was getting set up, an argument ensued over which server I should be doing my work on. In my old job I would have got caught up in the nonsense. This time I could just say: "OK, you guys figure it out, I'll just wait over here". Sitting and reading while you count the dollars someone else is burning through can be rather therapeutic.

This time I could just say: "OK, you guys figure it out, I'll just wait over here". You could have said that before in other situations. Regardless of what your work situation is, you can always do this. I haven't but in retrospect realize I could have in more situations than I want to acknowledge. The downside to that is you end up having to live with someone else's decisions for far longer than they spent making th…

You can, and I do. The difficulty is catching yourself in time before you are drawn into the conflict. It's amazing when you see it happening "from the outside" and you realize how much time you were formerly wasting by participating in what are, in the end, usually pointless arguments.

Disengage, then say "let me know by XX:YY when you make a decision" and find something else to work on. Truly liberating.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#195

Post by yaddayadda »

aturek wrote: post #158
droopyEyelids wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me you seem to be describing some sort of ideal world. Your vision fails to describe why information is withheld from engineers that would help them do their job. We wont even talk about why doublespeak and so often what seem to be outright lies are told to trusted members of the team. The world you describe is some rational honest place where people are trying to build a system they understand. In an engineering…

I see the job of a dev manager (i.e. his direct reports are mostly engineers) as the following: (1) Filter requests for work to his team to avoid them having to constantly task-switch, with the associated loss of productivity and job satisfaction. (2) Provide his team with the business context for the work he asks them to do, and trust them to handle details. (3) Get his team the support they need to do their jobs. T…

This, except that it applies to all managers not just dev managers.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#196

Post by vinceguidry »

seestheday wrote: post #169
vinceguidry wrote: post #117

John Boyd had this problem. Boyd was the best fighter pilot in the Air Force. At the Fighter Weapons School, the Air Force's advanced tactics course that the Navy's Top Gun school was later based on, he laid down a challenge to anyone who would take it, in forty seconds, Boyd would maneuver from from having you on his six, to being on your six and winning the battle. It only ever took him twenty seconds and he was ne…

Holy hell - I have got to look this guy up. Edit: I did some reading. A lot of sources referenced a very abrasive manner. That could have been a major factor into why his ideas weren't used more.

It really wouldn't have mattered if he weren't. The Air Force officer corps largely consisted of careerist sycophants who wouldn't have accepted anything that bucked the conventional wisdom of Bigger-Higher-Faster-Further.

We can speculate as to whether Boyd could have been even more of a superman than he already was and what he could have then accomplished. He was able to get the ear of incredibly powerful cabinet members and was successful at pushing projects through an uncooperative and actively hostile Pentagon. It's just that the weight of the status quo was just too huge for even him to move. It's not like he could fire every single general that was in his way, though he did manage to get at least one that I read about, though he never made general himself.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#197

Post by aniijbod »

Are you finding that you are getting better at asking the kinds of questions whose answers identify potential problems that would have otherwise only been apparent after you had accepted the job? It's just possible that this might be too much to ask, especially if the problems are sufficiently different every time. The answer to the 'is it me' question may quite possibly have less to do with your compatibility or suitability but may have more to do with 'diagnostic skill', in which case, perseverance may just pay off as you get better at it over time.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#198

Post by 300bps »

jfasi wrote: post #53

I think it would be helpful to try to understand the perspective of management. Consider an extreme stereotype: the "business school guy." He went to XYZ school of management, where he learned that a business is an organization that takes in raw materials and creates something more valuable than the sum of the unfinished parts. He learned how to raise money by selling his business idea to other people who think like…

The point is that generally people in management can be assumed to be doing their best.

Yes, but people in general judge themselves on their intentions while judging others on their results.

Part of maturing is figuring out how to not do this. Until that happens, it's easy for someone to find faults with everyone everywhere.

For me, I'm reminded of the times early in my career where our marketing people were making what I thought were the most boneheaded moves I could have imagined. One project in particular seemed especially bad and like we were flushing marketing dollars and IT resources down the toilet. That project ended up being responsible for 60% of our business for several years. From that, I learned to fulfill my role to the best of my ability and always respect the opinion of experts in other roles. They might not bat 1000, but I don't either.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#199

Post by mitochondrion »

jrs235 wrote: post #144
cjf4 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fine line though, because in any organization leadership is critical, and good leadership is not the result of a job title. A good leader fosters that collaboration, and points it in the right direction to meet some sort of larger, defined goal. Bad managers who lack good leadership qualities seem to distract people from the fact that leadership is still essential.

Which makes it important to note and distinguish that manager and leader are not synonymous. A manager that believes they are a leader because they are a manager is usually very bad news. A leader doesn't need to be a manager. It's difficult to find leadership qualities in managers, often times because many that WANT/DESIRE to manage want to for purposes of power and control. A true "king" LEADS his army into battle…

The king who leads the charge dies first.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#200

Post by alttab »

sizzle wrote: post #161
HillRat wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, take all my upvotes. :) The only thing I would amend is that most poor managers aren't the "slaver" types (if you end up reporting to one, it'll be obvious and you'll know to run as far and as fast as possible). Instead, they're weak -- incapable of protecting their people and productivity. Weak managers come in a lot of flavors, and it takes time to discern when one isn't working out. For example, you could ha…

also, be able to pick up cues on psychopath personalities in management positions and steer clear of them

good luck
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