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Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

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Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#191
post #32
post #24

It's not anecdotal. There's no doubt there is a massive downturn in tech and in general right now. There has never before been such large revisions to job numbers. The latest is that massive print of 653k jobs in Q2 was all a lie. > The massive downward revisions to jobs data are set to continue: latest from PHL Fed has early benchmark indicating jobs DECLINED in Q2 of this year while the initial monthly job reports…

Terrible. I've turned to making video games while my wife works. Rough times.

how far from your previous experience is the game work?

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#192
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment is mostly talking about Silicon Valley big tech, of which exactly 100% operates in many countries.

Having worked for a startup and lost my job to remote workers in a foreign country because they were cheaper and being told "we can hire 3 or 4 of them for the price of you" has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I can tell you that US tech companies making enormous amounts of money from your country's populace while contributing back near-zero jobs in return is just as bitter.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#193
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Great! US tech is by far the biggest benefactor of it (and it isn't close), so you'll be much, much worse off, but good luck. Those in Denmark that you don't care about will rejoice.

It sounds like those in Denmark who are rejoicing over this are also anti-globalization, so its a win for everyone then.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be illegal for American companies to operate abroad when they have international revenue streams?

[flagged]

But they make a lot (most) of their money outside of the USA, so why restrict them to doing the work only in the USA? That will not only start a trade war, but give an unfair advantage to foreign companies (like SAP) who can open up R&D offices in the USA, Germany, or wherever they want.

America First is as old as the Great Depression years ago. They always fizzle out in the face of economic realities.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#195
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there are a lot of companies, and yes people and companies can lie. I'm not really sure how this negates what I said or my view on the matter. Globalization is the antithesis of the America First movement.

Some industries do face shortages in short term skilled labor supply; they might be able to get more people trained up in 5-10 years, with enough investment, but you can’t get a journeyman ready in three months. Others just want more supply, to reduce labor costs and make domestic production cost-competitive with foreign equivalents. Neither of those groups is lying.

Then let them go through the immigration system, get a green card and start working in the US. The original thread here is me saying that it should be illegal / there should be penalties for hiring abroad when there are plenty of skilled American workers who are being turned down for the jobs which are going to cheap foreign labor.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#196
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the difference between "interviewed" and "hired" here is crucial. I had a similar rule at my previous job. If anything I felt the risk was that this would be abused to the detriment of the URM candidate. If you have a strong candidate coming through but haven't met the URM interview retirement yet, it's tempting to not look for a "real" candidate but just go through the motions with the next candidate who matches…

idk it seems illegal to me.. the civil rights act says in very plain language that it's illegal to discriminate based on immutable characteristics during hiring. Break down a hypothetical scenario: 1. Post a job, anyone can apply. 2. Candidate applies, goes through the hiring process, the team likes them and wants to make an offer. 3. Not a woman or PoC so not allowed to make an offer yet. So at this point lets say y…

Not a legal expert, but suffice to say it's not without it's challenges. In practice, as a hiring manager, I've had the luck that it hadn't made a difference either way since I always had some promising URMs in the pipeline. (Edit: I take that back. At one point I had 4 reqs and the first candidate was a real unicorn and we hadn't interviewed a URM yet. My VP gave me an exemption on the condition that the other three reqs have to go the proper route. I got the exemption because he knew for a long time and trusted me and because of the remaining, identical reqs)

Edit: To some degree it's a variation of the same old goals/metrics spiel. Ideally you'd have managers who want to give URMs a chance. In practice creating this metric to force it makes nothing better but likely everything worse for everyone in the system.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic "buying on the high" behavior, we saw this in 1998/99 also.

I've been fascinated by the boom in university CS departments since I was a CS major myself during the low point between 1999-2001 and the start of the current boom. At my alma mater with a total undergrad enrollment between 10-20k, my graduating class of CS majors had just 23 people. The department didn't even have its own building. For a number of years now, CS has been the most popular major there (graduating hund…

Business, law, and medicine are still pretty "high touch" and I think will be for a long time. Nobody is really going to trust an AI for legal or medical advice -- even if the use of AI becomes more common in those professions (which I expect) people want a human connection or a human handshake (or a human to blame).

AI for software though? It will decimate employment in that field as soon as it's good enough. Nobody cares who or what wrote their software. It's been amusing to me to watch the software profession build the tools of its own destruction.

As far as the future, I would advise looking at professions where a high degree of human-to-human interaction is important. But certainly I have no crystal ball, maybe people of the future will be fine with getting care from a Star Trek "Medical Hologram" doctor.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#198
Yes. I have 15 years experience of mediocre web development, project management, and product management experience. Most of my development work was building the same CRUD apps over and over in greenfield projects and at small scale, so I never really had professional experience to "level up" and be a better candidate as a developer. Obviously in this job market with lots of other unemployed people with a more clearly good track record, it's very difficult for me to get an interview at all.

I saw an interesting post on X the other day: someone was saying that when people get a degree in something like... music, and they're bad at playing whatever their chosen instrument is, it's not surprising when they don't find employment. For some reason we do have an expectation that even bad or mediocre programmers will get jobs, which was maybe historically true simply due to the high demand for those skills at all, but maybe we're seeing the shift where it no longer is.

I think there's more at play too: many people are more productive in their roles thanks to AI, people are maybe clinging to their jobs more knowing what the job market is like, and companies are probably not spending money like they have been for the past decade due to interesting rates/uncertainty/whatever else.

One anecdote I'll add about foreign workers: my last employer was a software agency/consultancy, and they had probably twice as many developers in a country in southeast asia as they did in the US. I am not clear what the root of the issue was, I think it was probably several things, but that employer did struggle a lot with the results and output of the teams in that country, to the point that their entire office in that country closed down and I think the entire team was laid off. I think the problem was a mixture of poor management on the American side, poor hiring practices on the foreign (I don't like that word) side, cultural differences between expectations in work, communication barriers in terms of them understanding the details of the work that needed to be done, and mismanagement on both sides of the ocean causing poor morale.

I will add, that agency framed the use of foreign workers as a necessity for cost reasons, which I believe to be true. There was work they did with extremely small margins and even with foreign workers, was often times unprofitable. Small businesses just really do not have the budget for teams of software developers to make custom software, and especially not when the development process is an inefficient as it sometimes was at that agency.

disclaimer: really lovely, amazing people all around. great humans. had some understandable flaws. i don't like the use of the word foreign because i don't want to otherize anyone but not sure what other word to use

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, exactly? These companies have foreign customers, it seems reasonable to expect that they would also want to have foreign employees that can speak the language, work in the same time zone, etc. And the demand for those employees is unlikely to be perfectly commensurate with demand for US based employees at all times. Seems like a ban would be pretty destructive, even if some of this hiring is an attempt at offsho…

If this is the case, why do I get someone in India when I call US based companies for support (during their midnight)? Should US employees do support for Indian companies during our midnight too? I'm being honest, I can probably work for a few pennies since I was laid off months ago. Anything will help keep me going at this point.

I've witnessed the answer personally. Indian immigrants working physically in US call centers.

Re: Ask HN: Are you unable to find employment?

#200
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we see PG talking up H1B on twitter. I'd like to think that if he still read HN he might not do that. Really companies should be banned from importing more people[1] if they laid off a certain number in the last year. That way the job market would be more likely to self correct. [1] I think they should still be allowed to hire people who are already in the country on a visa, as it's unfair to make their risk of b…

An argument against not being allowed to import more people after layoffs (and it’s the one people like PG and Musk are making) is that the people who were laid off simply don’t have the skills required to allow companies to succeed. They need to import labor because the domestic labor pool isn’t good enough. A quieter part is that people immigrating also expect less for their outputs.

Mass layoffs are generally not that discriminating. Because they don't want the news to leak in advance, it's usually a circle of the top brass and the HR department that decides who goes. And with mass layoffs, it's usually entire teams not just people who were on performance plans. Hence, I don't think their argument is good. I have little against importing talent when there is a shortage[1], but mass layoffs are good evidence that there is not.

[1] Well, except when the country fails to invest enough in education and training. It's wrong for the UK, for example, to consistently not fund enough medical students, and make up for it by importing staff educated by third world countries.

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