Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#191

Post by goodpoint » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

kubami wrote: post #141

johnchristopher wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He wasn't bad as an engineer, but he had this crazy OCD to a point that even keys in YAML file should be ordered alphabetically. Eh, I am guilty of that (for myself, I don't run around other people's code). I don't know if it's OCD but I clearly remember the moment I decided to order keys (in yaml, json, etc.): after a debugging session where I lost time because I was scanning whole lists with my eyes, looking for…

IMHO having this as a rule that keys in dictionaries are sorted alphabetically can be a valid rule. But this should be enforced in tooling, not "rules", and not through micromanagement. Much like using opinionated code formatters - like `prettier` you mention. It makes lives of everyone easier down the line. Sometimes this comes from years of experience (mostly pain ;)). Some leaders, while coming from a good place -…

> having this as a rule that keys in dictionaries are sorted alphabetically can be a valid rule

Ordering keys to prevent randomness is very helpful to spot changes when using "git diff", doing code reviews, comparing files side by side.

Often it helped me spotting bugs due to a missing or unwanted element.

I wish code linters had enabled by default with the ability to disable it with some simple syntax.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#192

Post by Bootvis » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

jariel wrote: post #163

Bootvis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Nothing to serious I hope? Can I be of any help?” works for me as an employee.

This is highly subjective though. Personally, if I'm sick, the last think I want to do is communicate with my manager - it means you have to be careful, you never know if they're digging, or 'professional but not exactly sincere empathy' etc.. 'Adult Professionals' shouldn't need to be coddled. If you're sick you're sick and that's that. If you have something that's a 'big deal' then you have that in a conversation i…

I trust my manager to not be a dick when I'm sick. I also believe he is an empathetic person who cares about me and wants to know what's up. I understand he has a list of tasks that need to be completed by his small team. So I'm happy to let him know whether I expect to be out for a day or a week.

If I didn't have such a relation with my manager I'd be looking for a job. If he doesn't look out for me when I'm sick he will probably not look out for me professionally either.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#193

Post by jrh206 » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #180

sunir wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Girly?

Yes, see https://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2006/... and https://signalvnoise.com/archives2/beautiful_code_testfirst.... I don't have good memories from the whole thing.

Haven’t read the articles, but wow, this idea needs a new name

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#194

Post by throwaway98797 » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

yowlingcat wrote: post #179

fighterpilot wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people don't deliver what you expected, it's because you did a shitty job of communicating it to them. Why is this necessarily the fault of the manager's communication skills? Sometimes the person sucks beyond repair and needs to be fired. If you have a competent person who didn't deliver what you expected, then yes, it's probably the fault of the manager's communication. Not so for the lower-end of that compe…

> Sometimes the person sucks beyond repair and needs to be fired. And who does that person report to? Who made the decision to hire them in the first place?

you are not as bad as the last person who miss understood you.

if people generally understand you and one person does not its them. if most people don’t understand you its you.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#195

Post by yowlingcat » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #189

yowlingcat wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes the person sucks beyond repair and needs to be fired. And who does that person report to? Who made the decision to hire them in the first place?

That's why I said "It might still be the manager's fault for hiring that person in the first place"

First of all, nobody "sucks beyond repair" -- everyone can grow and evolve although some people may start at a point where the company doesn't have adequate enough resources to make an ROI off of its investment.

The problem is, some people have a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset because they've never seen anything different so they think it's impossible. When you say "Sometimes the person sucks beyond repair and needs to be fired" it ends up functioning as a red herring to deflect away from poor people leadership. It's a naive excuse made to hide a lack of understanding regarding how something really works.

To figure that out, let's ask this: how do you think the manager hired that "wrong" person in the first place, and how do you think that person ended up in a place to end up failing?

My point is not to be socratically pedantic here, but to point out that communication is /hard/ and often times an inadequate deployment of it is at the root cause of these kinds of failures. What kinds of communications could have gone wrong here?

1) Failure to adequately communicate with higher ups about headcount, business goals and necessity/capability to deploy extra headcount

2) Failure to adequately communicate requirements for the job before hiring

3) Failure to adequately communicate during the interview so as to properly assess candidates

4) Failure to adequately communicate expectations, progress, onboarding and plans after a candidate onboards

Guess what happens if anything about this chain of processes is broken internally? The candidate will fail, and due to circumstances out of their control. And then they will move to a more functional organization, and wonder why they ever wasted their time with this one.

Now, whose responsibility is it to make the right judgment call about that? Whose responsibility is it to have the right internal /communications/ to make sure the decision is well thought out and solid, to make sure it is brought through to fruition successfully? Who reaps the ultimate rewards, and who ultimately shoulders the greatest burden for mis-execution?

Not the IC. It is leadership. This isn't rocket science.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#196

Post by darkerside » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

seneca wrote: post #11

xmprt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What reason did HR give for you not being able to fire him? I think at least some members of the team would be understanding. Also, I'm not sure if you tried this, but I've heard in cases where you can't fire someone, you recommend them for internal transfer and give the other manager good reviews of them. It's a bit scummy but it's the most positive outcome for the team.

> What reason did HR give for you not being able to fire him? I don't want to ignore the question, but it's a sensitive topic and I'm not sure bringing it up would add to the conversation. > Also, I'm not sure if you tried this, but I've heard in cases where you can't fire someone, you recommend them for internal transfer and give the other manager good reviews of them. Yes, I actually had a peer recommended this as…

You've lost the trust of people reading this thread just as much as you lost the trust of your team when you couldn't find a way to be appropriately transparent with them. For a problem that affects them daily, you can't really leave it at, it just is what it is.

You can say there was a medical issue, or a discrimination issue, or nepotism. If you say nothing, people have to assume the worst.

The worst in this case is probably people assuming you didn't try very hard to fire them.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#197

Post by Buttons840 » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

kubami wrote: post #141

johnchristopher wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He wasn't bad as an engineer, but he had this crazy OCD to a point that even keys in YAML file should be ordered alphabetically. Eh, I am guilty of that (for myself, I don't run around other people's code). I don't know if it's OCD but I clearly remember the moment I decided to order keys (in yaml, json, etc.): after a debugging session where I lost time because I was scanning whole lists with my eyes, looking for…

IMHO having this as a rule that keys in dictionaries are sorted alphabetically can be a valid rule. But this should be enforced in tooling, not "rules", and not through micromanagement. Much like using opinionated code formatters - like `prettier` you mention. It makes lives of everyone easier down the line. Sometimes this comes from years of experience (mostly pain ;)). Some leaders, while coming from a good place -…

I think another option is to just let it go and you can "fix" it later if you want and have the chance. Just put it in a "cleanup" commit or something. Don't be passive agressive about it, make it a team practice. Sometimes people will change the style of your code, that's ok, it's not a slight against you.

However, if you get in a situation where people are changing styles back and forth then you need to talk it out. E.g. Alice inserts a blank line, Bob removes the blank line, Alice inserts the blank line again - time to talk about blank lines and code style.

In this case, if Alice sorts the dictionary keys and Bob couldn't care less, it seems both can have what they want by simply letting Alice sort the keys. And if it becomes a common thing instead of a one-off, maybe talk about it.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#198

Post by darkerside » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #119

takeda wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, that describes exactly my last job (which wasn't bad, I liked my coworkers, but my last manager made it a horrible experience), worst job I had so far. He wasn't bad as an engineer, but he had this crazy OCD to a point that even keys in YAML file should be ordered alphabetically. He had his vision how things should be, and how he would implement them. First, he was not happy that my solutions were done differentl…

> He wasn't bad as an engineer, but he had this crazy OCD to a point that even keys in YAML file should be ordered alphabetically. Eh, I am guilty of that (for myself, I don't run around other people's code). I don't know if it's OCD but I clearly remember the moment I decided to order keys (in yaml, json, etc.): after a debugging session where I lost time because I was scanning whole lists with my eyes, looking for…

That makes it way easier for one person to find (who actually knows the names they chose for the keys) but just about impossible for everybody else.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#199

Post by darkerside » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

takeda wrote: post #102

fighterpilot wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people don't deliver what you expected, it's because you did a shitty job of communicating it to them. Why is this necessarily the fault of the manager's communication skills? Sometimes the person sucks beyond repair and needs to be fired. If you have a competent person who didn't deliver what you expected, then yes, it's probably the fault of the manager's communication. Not so for the lower-end of that compe…

If requirements were provided and person didn't fulfill them, they did a bad job. If requirements were fulfilled, but you aren't happy with the result, then you did a bad job.

It's always shades of gray when it comes to management. You need to sort the grays into blacks and whites, but don't forget that they are gray.

Re: Ask HN: What was the biggest leadership challenge of your career?

#200

Post by Buttons840 » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #101

rubyn00bie wrote: post #44

Learning to let my go of my ego and trust... Understanding that delegating tasks, instead of doing them myself, was of the utmost importance the more people I managed... especially, greenfield work. Literally: do not steal the fun. This also means inherently trusting people, and if you can't do that you shouldn't be working with them. two important notes about that: 1. If you just thought of someone you can't trust i…

> When people don't deliver what you expected, it's because you did a shitty job of communicating it to them. Why is this necessarily the fault of the manager's communication skills? Sometimes the person sucks beyond repair and needs to be fired. If you have a competent person who didn't deliver what you expected, then yes, it's probably the fault of the manager's communication. Not so for the lower-end of that compe…

It doesn't matter who's fault it is. Communication failed. You can fix it by changing yourself or the other person, but only one of those solutions is within your power.